View Poll Results: Photo ID to vote?

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  • Yes

    82 66.13%
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    42 33.87%
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Thread: Photo ID to vote?

  1. #481
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Of course you can document there will financial aid available to assist those 5 million in acquiring photo IDs, right?
    There would have to be, or the Supreme Court will declare it to be a poll tax, which is illegal.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  2. #482
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    There would have to be, or the Supreme Court will declare it to be a poll tax, which is illegal.
    I think they would have to make IDs free for those over 18.
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
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  3. #483
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Five million out of 300 is only <2% of the population. Even that sounds pretty high, but I don't see where that would be a problem.

    When you factor in the number of people who actually vote, that number is likely to drop below 1% of the population. That shouldn't be a huge problem.
    There are about 190,000,000 voters. 5 million voters disenfranchised would be 2.63% of voters. That could swing tight races.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #484
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Seriously, who doesn't have a birth certificate?
    "This report is the first full accounting and analysis of this year's voting cutbacks. It details both the bills that have been proposed and the legislation that has been passed since the beginning of 2011."

    Executive Summary

    "Over the past century, our nation expanded the franchise and knocked down myriad barriers to full electoral participation. In 2011, however, that momentum abruptly shifted.

    State governments across the country enacted an array of new laws making it harder to register or to vote. Some states require voters to show government-issued photo identification, often of a type that as many as one in ten voters do not have. Other states have cut back on early voting, a hugely popular innovation used by millions of Americans. Two states reversed earlier reforms and once again disenfranchised millions who have past criminal convictions but who are now taxpaying members of the community. Still others made it much more difficult for citizens to register to vote, a prerequisite for voting.

    These new restrictions fall most heavily on young, minority, and low-income voters, as well as on voters with disabilities. This wave of changes may sharply tilt the political terrain for the 2012 election. Based on the Brennan Center’s analysis of the 19 laws and two executive actions that passed in 14 states, it is clear that:

    These new laws could make it significantly harder for more than five million eligible voters to cast ballots in 2012.
    The states that have already cut back on voting rights will provide 171 electoral votes in 2012 – 63 percent of the 270 needed to win the presidency.

    Of the 12 likely battleground states, as assessed by an August Los Angeles Times analysis of Gallup polling, five have already cut back on voting rights (and may pass additional restrictive legislation), and two more are currently considering new restrictions.

    States have changed their laws so rapidly that no single analysis has assessed the overall impact of such moves. Although it is too early to quantify how the changes will impact voter turnout, they will be a hindrance to many voters at a time when the United States continues to turn out less than two thirds of its eligible citizens in presidential elections and less than half in midterm elections.

    This study is the first comprehensive roundup of all state legislative action thus far in 2011 on voting rights, focusing on new laws as well as state legislation that has not yet passed or that failed. This snapshot may soon be incomplete: the second halves of some state legislative sessions have begun."

    Voting Law Changes in 2012 | Brennan Center for Justice
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    There would have to be, or the Supreme Court will declare it to be a poll tax, which is illegal.
    I have not seen the language for the aid that would be provided, and this aid was not included in the analysis by the Brennan Center for Justice. Do you have link to share?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #486
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    There are about 190,000,000 voters. 5 million voters disenfranchised would be 2.63% of voters. That could swing tight races.
    That assumes 100% of the 2.63% vote ... which would be a bad assumption. The last election (2010) showed a Voter Eligible Person turnout rate to be 40%, and that's high historically. The 5 million is now a universe of 2 million. Of which a % would vote for each of the running candidates.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #487
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    That assumes 100% of the 2.63% vote ... which would be a bad assumption. The last election (2010) showed a Voter Eligible Person turnout rate to be 40%, and that's high historically. The 5 million is now a universe of 2 million. Of which a % would vote for each of the running candidates.
    You missed the summary of the study on the subject above, here is an excerpt:

    "These new restrictions fall most heavily on young, minority, and low-income voters, as well as on voters with disabilities. This wave of changes may sharply tilt the political terrain for the 2012 election. Based on the Brennan Center’s analysis of the 19 laws and two executive actions that passed in 14 states, it is clear that:

    These new laws could make it significantly harder for more than five million eligible voters to cast ballots in 2012.
    The states that have already cut back on voting rights will provide 171 electoral votes in 2012 – 63 percent of the 270 needed to win the presidency.

    Of the 12 likely battleground states, as assessed by an August Los Angeles Times analysis of Gallup polling, five have already cut back on voting rights (and may pass additional restrictive legislation), and two more are currently considering new restrictions.

    States have changed their laws so rapidly that no single analysis has assessed the overall impact of such moves. Although it is too early to quantify how the changes will impact voter turnout, they will be a hindrance to many voters at a time when the United States continues to turn out less than two thirds of its eligible citizens in presidential elections and less than half in midterm elections.

    This study is the first comprehensive roundup of all state legislative action thus far in 2011 on voting rights, focusing on new laws as well as state legislation that has not yet passed or that failed. This snapshot may soon be incomplete: the second halves of some state legislative sessions have begun."
    Last edited by Catawba; 12-22-11 at 08:59 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #488
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    You missed the summary of the study on the subject above, here is an excerpt:

    "These new restrictions fall most heavily on young, minority, and low-income voters, as well as on voters with disabilities. This wave of changes may sharply tilt the political terrain for the 2012 election. Based on the Brennan Center’s analysis of the 19 laws and two executive actions that passed in 14 states, it is clear that:

    These new laws could make it significantly harder for more than five million eligible voters to cast ballots in 2012.
    The states that have already cut back on voting rights will provide 171 electoral votes in 2012 – 63 percent of the 270 needed to win the presidency.

    Of the 12 likely battleground states, as assessed by an August Los Angeles Times analysis of Gallup polling, five have already cut back on voting rights (and may pass additional restrictive legislation), and two more are currently considering new restrictions.

    States have changed their laws so rapidly that no single analysis has assessed the overall impact of such moves. Although it is too early to quantify how the changes will impact voter turnout, they will be a hindrance to many voters at a time when the United States continues to turn out less than two thirds of its eligible citizens in presidential elections and less than half in midterm elections.

    This study is the first comprehensive roundup of all state legislative action thus far in 2011 on voting rights, focusing on new laws as well as state legislation that has not yet passed or that failed. This snapshot may soon be incomplete: the second halves of some state legislative sessions have begun."
    The summary supports most of what I already said.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  9. #489
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The summary supports most of what I already said.
    Glad you agree with the summary that concludes the new voter requirements could disenfranchise 5 million voters.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #490
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Glad you agree with the summary that concludes the new voter requirements could disenfranchise 5 million voters.
    Since I didn't read the summary, I'm glad the summary agrees with me, and it's not 5 million disenfranchised voters, as I've already pointed out, and your summary pointed out.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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