View Poll Results: Photo ID to vote?

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    82 66.13%
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    42 33.87%
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Thread: Photo ID to vote?

  1. #391
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Ummm....that has nothing to do with what you asked or my reply...

    Right, we can't know for sure how it will play out until it happens, but it looks like it will be bad. What do you have to suggest otherwise? - teamosil

    I pointed out that it is already used in 15 states with no real issues, that's it. Your question and my answer had nothing at all to do with the study.
    You're not following. We require valid ID in 15 states. 99% of people have an ID that is valid, so that hasn't been a huge problem. But these new laws are much stricter. Only 90% of people have an ID that meets the requirements in the worst of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Sorry they are disfranchised because of stupidity, not a photo id.
    Whether you think somebody is "stupid" or not isn't the standard for who gets to vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    PS most if not all states require you update you driver licence or id within 30 days of moving or moving to a new state. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, never has been and never will be.
    If you drive.

    You're just trying to avoid the question. Where is your evidence that there are more than 5 million, or even anywhere near that number, votes fraudulently cast by people actually going into the polling place? Without that you have no choice but to concede that these laws would actually mess up elections more than they would help them. They would make them less accurate.

  2. #392
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Just a plain old valid ID? No, I would not oppose that. I would oppose it if they tried to add on all kind of unrelated requirements just to try to prevent people from buying guns like requiring that it be issued by the state in which they are buying the gun, have their current address, etc.
    If the id does not have your current address or is not current in the state you live in. If it does not have those it is not a valid ID.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  3. #393
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    It would also keep people who should not be voting from voting. Damn what a concept!
    Ah... There we go. So you admit it. See that wasn't so hard. It is indeed an attempt to disenfranchise people you disagree with. Just like we've been saying all along.

  4. #394
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    If the id does not have your current address or is not current in the state you live in. If it does not have those it is not a valid ID.
    Nah, that's not true. You can do anything that requires an ID with an out of state ID or an ID with a previous address.

  5. #395
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You're not following. We require valid ID in 15 states. 99% of people have an ID that is valid, so that hasn't been a huge problem. But these new laws are much stricter. Only 90% of people have an ID that meets the requirements in the worst of them.
    The new laws as in 1 state has been shot down. It was deemed unconstitutional. The problem is you seem to want to throw out the baby with the bath water.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Whether you think somebody is "stupid" or not isn't the standard for who gets to vote.
    irrelevant in terms of the law no matter what I think. Nice way to try and dodge my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    If you drive.

    You're just trying to avoid the question. Where is your evidence that there are more than 5 million, or even anywhere near that number, votes fraudulently cast by people actually going into the polling place? Without that you have no choice but to concede that these laws would actually mess up elections more than they would help them. They would make them less accurate.
    I don't need evidence to prove something you are making up. It is nothing more than speculation. It is not based on anything that has happened yet. It came close one time and the courts shut it down. So your reasoning is flawed which brings a flawed conclusion based on again a guess.

    PS the law is for regular id's as well. In most states laws exist that if an officer ask's you for id, it must be up to date and from your state of residence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #396
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Nah, that's not true. You can do anything that requires an ID with an out of state ID or an ID with a previous address.
    Yes it is, I was a police officer. You can't do "anything" the only reason some people do is because they don't have the resources to run it. If you are stopped for any reason pedestrian, bicycle or motor vehicle and your id is found to be wrong you are warned to get it updated right away. I know, I had to do this literally hundreds of times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #397
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The new laws as in 1 state has been shot down. It was deemed unconstitutional. The problem is you seem to want to throw out the baby with the bath water.
    No, there are a ton of them. Somebody posted a list of some 10 or so states with new laws that will go into effect this election that will require current address and that they're issued by the state and whatnot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I don't need evidence to prove something you are making up. It is nothing more than speculation. It is not based on anything that has happened yet. It came close one time and the courts shut it down. So your reasoning is flawed which brings a flawed conclusion based on again a guess.
    Making up? Again, the study found that 10% of legal voters don't have an ID that meets those requirements. You keep claiming that was just made up, but it wasn't.

    This is the only question that matters. Will it prevent more fraud or will it disenfranchise more people. All the evidence seems to point resoundingly to that it will disenfranchise more people than it will prevent fraud. If you really have zero evidence showing otherwise, that's it, you lose by default. You failed to show up for the match and the other team won because of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    PS the law is for regular id's as well. In most states laws exist that if an officer ask's you for id, it must be up to date and from your state of residence.
    That is flat out false. You aren't even required to have an ID in this country. A couple states have tried making mandatory ID laws- AZ for one- but they have been struck down by the courts.

  8. #398
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Ah... There we go. So you admit it. See that wasn't so hard. It is indeed an attempt to disenfranchise people you disagree with. Just like we've been saying all along.
    What? So because felons and illegal aliens should not be voting I am trying to disenfranchise people? Oh my goodness, your an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  9. #399
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    What? So because felons and illegal aliens should not be voting I am trying to disenfranchise people? Oh my goodness, your an idiot.
    No kiddo. The people who don't have IDs that meet those requirements aren't felons and illegal aliens, they're college students, people who live in big cities and don't drive or move a lot, elderly people, etc. Heck, my grandmother couldn't vote if they passed one of those laws in her state. She hasn't driven in 20 years.

  10. #400
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    Re: Photo ID to vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    No, there are a ton of them. Somebody posted a list of some 10 or so states with new laws that will go into effect this election that will require current address and that they're issued by the state and whatnot.
    And if they are found to be unconstitutional they will be shot down, if not they will stay. End of story.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Making up? Again, the study found that 10% of legal voters don't have an ID that meets those requirements. You keep claiming that was just made up, but it wasn't.
    Then they can get one that does. Just because they did not have one in Nov of 2006, means little in 2011. I mean lets take into account some just needed them updated, other needed them replaced, , either way you are guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    This is the only question that matters. Will it prevent more fraud or will it disenfranchise more people. All the evidence seems to point resoundingly to that it will disenfranchise more people than it will prevent fraud. If you really have zero evidence showing otherwise, that's it, you lose by default. You failed to show up for the match and the other team won because of it.
    It will not disenfranchise anyone. Keep your id up to date and no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    That is flat out false. You aren't even required to have an ID in this country. A couple states have tried making mandatory ID laws- AZ for one- but they have been struck down by the courts.
    That's true, I was thinking in terms of arresting someone. If they don't present and are suspected of a crime with no ID we had to arrest them and go before a judge. Drivers licences of course are a different story.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 12-22-11 at 01:17 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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