View Poll Results: Is it raising taxes

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Thread: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

  1. #31
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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    The over arching question being able to be viewed in two different ways doesn't mean its reasonable to look at a situation in whatever particular over arching way suits your partisan agenda (general you here)
    I agree...be consistent and use the correct terminology. In both cases, it's fine to say people will be paying more in taxes if they aren't exteneded. To say that it's a tax increase is incorrect but the tax rates (despite being different for over a decade in the case of the Bush tax rates) are the pre-Bush tax cut rates and the pre-payroll "tax holiday" rates.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    Again, this discussion is flawed. We should talk about the appropriate level of taxation, not whether it's going up or down.

    As an analogy - if you only know you're going faster than you were a minute ago, that doesn't tell you if you're speeding.
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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I agree...be consistent and use the correct terminology. In both cases, it's fine to say people will be paying more in taxes if they aren't exteneded. To say that it's a tax increase is incorrect but the tax rates (despite being different for over a decade in the case of the Bush tax rates) are the pre-Bush tax cut rates and the pre-payroll "tax holiday" rates.
    I'll go a step further...

    To say that people will see their payroll taxes raise would be a proper analogy. However, to say that people would see their payroll taxes increase would be inaccurate. Again, since the payroll tax would only revert back to its original rate if allowed to expire, there is no increase - just a reset to the original level.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 12-12-11 at 03:21 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Pretty simpe here.

    A Tax Cut is passed and is set to be temporary.

    The time period for that temporary cut to expire is about to occur.

    Attempts to extend the "temporary" time period fails.

    Is the expiration of the temporary tax cut an example of "raising taxes".

    Are those who vote against such a temporary extension voting in to "raise taxes"?
    It depends on how you personally frame the question. It is a tax increase over the most recent tax rate. It is returning taxes to their normal levels. Same thing, it's just how you frame your question. Neither is inherently more correct to the other.
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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    is allowing a temporary tax-cut to expire= raising taxes?

    yes.

  6. #36
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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Pretty simpe here.

    A Tax Cut is passed and is set to be temporary.

    The time period for that temporary cut to expire is about to occur.

    Attempts to extend the "temporary" time period fails.

    Is the expiration of the temporary tax cut an example of "raising taxes".

    Are those who vote against such a temporary extension voting in to "raise taxes"?
    of course it is. if your rate is now 10%, it has to be raised to get to 12%. this is all semantics and a joke, i think. letting the bush cuts expire on the weathly is raising taxes, letting the payroll tax cut expire is raising taxes.

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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    If the tax cut that was authorized was meant to be temporary, then no. It is not a tax increase once the authorized tax reduction period has expired but rather a reset of the taxes back to their original levels same as would happen if the Bush tax cuts were to expire January 1, 2013 (i.e., tax rate of 15% temporarily reduced to 12.5%; time period for temporary rate reduction expires, rates then return to original 15% rate).

    A tax increase, IMO, would be if the rates were authorized at a higher level than what they were originally set (i.e., tax rate of 15% temporarily reduced to 12.5%, time period for temporary rate reduction expires, but new marginal tax rate of 18% is implemented).

    The foremer scenario is what may happen if the payroll tax cut isn't extended. That latter isn't even being considered.

    Reset...increase...too different things but both being viewed pretty much the same way because when you get right down to it both the reset and the increase takes money out of the pockets of working middle-class families who can least afford to pay more right now.

    Note: I might also add that the argument concerning "defunding" the Social Security Trust Fund is also being misconstrued. No one's "raiding" the SSTF because no "stimulus" checks will be coming out from the Treasury that in anyway is associated with the payroll tax cut. (In short, no one is being paid anything to who otherwise would qualify for the payroll tax cut.) If anything, extending the payroll tax cut would be more like reauthorizing a payroll tax credit except all one has to do in order to receive the tax benefit essentially is be employeed.
    nothing but semantics.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  8. #38
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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    Maybe the real lesson here is to stop allowing government to use words like "temporary" because, let's face it, things are only as temporary or permanent as the current political wind direction anyway. Then we wouldn't need to spin our wheels having these dumb-ass discussions to begin with.
    Last edited by radcen; 12-12-11 at 04:38 PM.

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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    Yes.

    They have the power to extend it so if they don't then they are willfully raising taxes.
    A government which robs Peter to pay Paul, can always count on the support of Paul

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    Re: Is allowing a temporary tax cut to expire raising taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Pretty simpe here.

    A Tax Cut is passed and is set to be temporary.

    The time period for that temporary cut to expire is about to occur.

    Attempts to extend the "temporary" time period fails.

    Is the expiration of the temporary tax cut an example of "raising taxes".

    Are those who vote against such a temporary extension voting in to "raise taxes"?
    The expiration of a tax cut is a de facto tax hike. Failure to support an extension isn't a hike from normative rates, so much as it is a hike from existing ones. While that may be scheduled to take place without subsequent action, in such a case a failure to act is tantamount to support for the scheduled outcome.

    To give you an example on a personal scale, my wife has a long-time friend who is someone of low character and with whom I would just as soon my wife not associate with. My wife is conflicted given that this person who has been her friend (if in name only) for more than twenty years and my wife does not presently have the time to go out and make new friends. This person is engaged to be married next year and will be moving out of state permanently once she does; at which time her interaction with my wife will be significantly reduced. My wife has resigned herself to passively allow time to pass and her "friend" to move rather than actively seek to break off an unhealthy relationship. The result is the same. My wife would never consider that she "supports" a diminished relationship with her friend, though that is exactly what will happen despite the fact my has no intention of actively seeking those ends. Leaving aside that my wife really has no control over her friend's decision to move regardless, it is still "support" for the same objective, the sole difference being between active, direct support (an act of commission) and passive, indirect support (an act of omission).

    Same with the tax debate. And while some lawmakers may not want to "raise" taxes, but believe they've been artificially low and should return to previous standards, that's still a tax hike, regardless of how they prefer to think of it. Just as my wife won't ever see her passivity in "letting" her friend leave and the relationship just dissipate over time as her ending the friendship. It's only a mental rationalization to excuse their decision to assuage what they're doing. It doesn't change the facts, much less the outcome.

    People can call day "night" and night "day" all they want. It doesn't make it so.

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