View Poll Results: Is the System Broken are People at Fault or Both??

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  • Is the System Broken?

    5 11.11%
  • Are People at Fault?

    8 17.78%
  • or Both?

    32 71.11%
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Thread: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    I don't see where I misstated anything when asking about your agreement with this statement:

    "We should not be using an 18th century system in a 21st century society."

    By agreeing, you are certainly criticizing our Constitutional form of government.

    You missed the part of my response to that post where I only agreed to it being outdated. Then I responded to you which parts I thought were outdated and flawed.

    You can try and infer anything you please it doesn't make you right, just makes you someone who's trying to put words in my mouth that I never said. There's a term for that. If you go to my OP you'll see where I said, "The US government is IMO one of the most fair systems of governing ever devised in human history."

    Maybe you want to read a little more of the thread before making things up?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  2. #72
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You missed the part of my response to that post where I only agreed to it being outdated. Then I responded to you which parts I thought were outdated and flawed.

    You can try and infer anything you please it doesn't make you right, just makes you someone who's trying to put words in my mouth that I never said. There's a term for that. If you go to my OP you'll see where I said, "The US government is IMO one of the most fair systems of governing ever devised in human history."

    Maybe you want to read a little more of the thread before making things up?
    All you would have needed to do was to say this in response to the question. Instead, you went on the defensive and felt as if I was in some way attacking you personally...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  3. #73
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    I only believe the broken system is seen when it comes to the debates. Obviously debating was never outlined as law or such, but i still think it is necessary for all voters to see all candidates, not just a Republican and a Democrat.
    I think that's a bi-product of such a divided tax base.

    Those who pay less want more and those who pay more want less.

    It has led to radical political parties and no room for the middle ground.

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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
    I would say, an outdated constitution. Speech may have applied to newspapers back then but how many 4 year olds were reading them? Television is different and has not been pervasive for even 70 years. But it is a kind of uncontrolled experiment on society.

    Now what will tablet computers do? Will this provide more parent control?

    psik
    I'm not sure what any of that has to do with freedom of speech though.

  5. #75
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    All you would have needed to do was to say this in response to the question. Instead, you went on the defensive and felt as if I was in some way attacking you personally...
    My apologies if you felt attacked. I was trying to respond to an accusation that I didn't approve of the US Constitution, which I do.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  6. #76
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Andy View Post
    I think that's a bi-product of such a divided tax base.

    Those who pay less want more and those who pay more want less.

    It has led to radical political parties and no room for the middle ground.
    I don't know if i agree with the divided tax bases part of that, but i totally agree with radical parties with little middle ground.
    "Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals."
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  7. #77
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Anybody who reads the constitution and then looks at how our government functions today would be amazed that the connection to the constitution is so remote as it is today. I lay this at the feet of the political "do good busy bodies" and the self-serving populace that elects them. That's precisely what brought us Clinton, Bush, and finally in a coda (as if one was needed) Obama. Whenever the government believes it's role is to go around to public schools at lunch time and check to see if Suzy has an appropriate lunch sent from home, something is wrong. What happened to parents feeding their children without government nosing in? Do we really have to tell parents to properly feed their children? If we do, something far more serious is occurring than just the contents or lack thereof in Suzie's lunch, and that finger of blame points squarely at the government to start with and the arrogant notion that social engineering is a central function of government.

  8. #78
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    Exactly what part of the Constitution do you view as outdated?
    1) Having a presidential system at all is outdated. The U.S. is essentially the first incarnation of the presidential system in the modern era. Since its inception other countries throughout the world, especially in South America, have evolved into dictatorships. This is because of the weakness of presidential systems - while there may be a bipartisan legislature and a bipartisan judiciary, it is unlikely for there to be a bipartisan executive. Which means that the executive branch of presidential systems tend to overreach in the powers it can wield because within the executive branch itself there is no bipartisan opposition, and thus can use its political power more efficiently. A parliamentary or even semi-presidential system which would cause our executive branch to be much more bipartisan, and therefore much more representative of the sovereign people, would be much more of a safeguard against dictatorship.

    2) Dividing House seats into single-member districts. The House of Representatives is supposed to be representative of the people, but having a single Representative represent a district within a state is not truly representative. If a politician of one party is elected within a district then he is not representing those constituents of his who are of other parties. Also, by having plurality elections in single-member districts, third party constituents go unrepresented because of Duverger's Law stating that plurality elections inherently created two-party systems in order to prevent spoilers. And that's not even getting into issues that are caused by drawing district lines, or the corruption that can happen by gerrymandering. Rather, having House seats in a state allocated via a statewide party proportional method would lead to a House of Representatives that is truly much more representative of the people.

    3) We live in a world of modern transportation and communication. Which drastically changes how trade and commerce operate worldwide and also within the U.S. since the 18th century. Which also drastically changes how businesses and corporations operate worldwide and also within the U.S. since the 18th century. As such, our country would do much better to establish constitutional guidelines as to how corporate groups be considered in regards to the law, especially in which rights and liberties they enjoy as well as what obligations and responsibilities they are restricted by.

    4) The 10th Amendment states that all powers not granted by the Constitution are granted to the states and to the people. State governments have processes by which they can exert these powers within the boundaries of their state. However, the people have no process by which they can exert these powers on a national level. Effectively, the 10th Amendment grants the people the right to pass federal laws for issues that the Constitution does not grant to the peoples' elected officials. Unfortunately, they did not include a process by which the people can draft and pass federal laws. In this way, the power of the people to exert their 10th Amendment powers is incomplete and continues to be infringed upon.

    Those are the 4 major issues I have with our current Constitution.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #79
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    It's not just mobs who demand candidates who give them free candy. Economic elites use their influence to get candidates who give them free candy too. And that has happened just as much throughout history.
    It's probably happened more in the case of the upper class since the lower classes weren't even part of government at the start of our country's history. High social and economic status has almost always translated into perks from the government - and that's held true over many types or government and many time periods. Usually, given most of human history, the lower classes aren't represented in government decisions. That's only changed in the last couple of hundred years. Given all the failures of the past without the lower classes "asking for more candy" I can't believe it could be any worse.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 06-09-13 at 03:15 PM.
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  10. #80
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    2) Dividing House seats into single-member districts. The House of Representatives is supposed to be representative of the people, but having a single Representative represent a district within a state is not truly representative. If a politician of one party is elected within a district then he is not representing those constituents of his who are of other parties. Also, by having plurality elections in single-member districts, third party constituents go unrepresented because of Duverger's Law stating that plurality elections inherently created two-party systems in order to prevent spoilers. And that's not even getting into issues that are caused by drawing district lines, or the corruption that can happen by gerrymandering. Rather, having House seats in a state allocated via a statewide party proportional method would lead to a House of Representatives that is truly much more representative of the people.
    I could get behind this idea.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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