View Poll Results: Is the System Broken are People at Fault or Both??

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  • Is the System Broken?

    5 11.11%
  • Are People at Fault?

    8 17.78%
  • or Both?

    32 71.11%
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Thread: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

  1. #31
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I agree that Welfare even if you're getting money for children with no father, caring for a sick relative, food stamps, section 8 housing, medicaid, SSI, unemployment benefits, disability, tax credits etc it's still not living high on the hog but it pays almost as well than working a full time, low wage job. By time you buy the clothing, lunches, health insurance, transportation costs and other assorted job related expenses you've eaten into an already small salary and that's not including living expenses. And there's the rub.
    The funny thing is that there are those that are making minimum wage (or even up to $3 higher than minimum wage) and on welfare. What does that say about wages? Oh I know the mantra...employers are not required nor should they have to pay a living wage. And yet it is often those same employers that complain about welfare systems. Never thinking that maybe if they did pay a living wage then not near as many people would be on welfare. But nope, its the poors fault that they don't get out and try and "better" themselves.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    K street needs to be shut down.

    If they want to influence a vote, write a thoughtful letter like the rest of us.

    An entirely new lobby industry has sprung up in recent years -- not influencing policy but lobbyists who just collect information about how a committee is going to vote, are other policy-legislative decisions. The information is collected and SOLD to hedge funds, days before the information is made public so that private funds can act on the information before the rest of the market. It's not insider trading because congress is immune from those laws.

    That needs to change.

  3. #33
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    It's not just mobs who demand candidates who give them free candy. Economic elites use their influence to get candidates who give them free candy too. And that has happened just as much throughout history.
    true, but it is rare for elites to be able to shunt off enough free stuff to threaten the nations' fisc. you need mass for that.

  4. #34
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    There is obviously a growing problem in today's politics. Whether it's a disconnect with candidates and elected officials or disenfranchised voters. The US government is IMO one of the most fair systems of governing ever devised in human history. Yet somehow we're seeing a growing corruption within. Is it from indefinite term limits, creating cronyism and career politicians? Is it from virtually unlimited candidate funding, allowing groups of concentrated wealth influence peddling? Is it the lobby's who through unimpeded access gain inside favoritism and no-bid contracts? Is it Party or Partisan Politics unable to compromise relying on ideology more than practical reasoning? I'm curious is it our system of governing that's flawed or are our people too self interested or a little of both? Let the debate begin.
    Why is this such a big freakin' mystery?

    The brilliance of our founders and those involved in the freedom movement is that they knew of and understand the history of man, of civilization, it's governments, wars and failings.

    Nothing has changed. The human condition is the same now as it was 8,000 years ago.

    Not all people are good
    Not all people are bad
    But we are all weak in some way
    We always trade freedom for security
    Tyranny always seeks power
    In good times, people will become complacent about their gov't, and their vigilance of it
    In bad times the opportunity of vigilance has passed.

    The wisdom of the founders wasn't just the founding of a new country, nor was it the establishment of freedom for as much of the populace as was possible at the time and still form a unified gov't...

    ... It was the construct of that gov't in a way that ceded political power to the people and local gov'ts, that allowed for grievances to be heard, allowed political dissent and freedom of the press, and most of all, to change the gov't or constitution when needed to advance freedom and protect our rights.

    The reason this is happening... is because it's what has always happened. We were given the warnings, wisdom, spirit, tools and power to keep the gov't and moneyed interests subordinate to the people and the common good. Through apathy, we have abdicated that power, surrendered out patriotic duty of vigilance of our gov't to partisan cheer leading and blind acceptance, finally to be set against one another through ideological divides.

    The rise and fall of most civs/gov'ts through history follow pretty familiar paths... there's no mystery here. And at the heart of it,,, is the nature of man, both as the wolf, and the sheep.

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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Considering the US government is funded by the people, I'd say there aren't many people getting "free goodies". SS, Medicare, and Medicaid are not "free goodies".
    apparently you missed the part where we were borrowing 40 cents on the dollar? and that the entitlements are scheduled to begin collapsing the rest of the government?

    And before you complain about WIC or Welfare, I suggest you try living on it for a month
    actually in my life I have qualified for both those programs, and refused to take either.

  6. #36
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The funny thing is that there are those that are making minimum wage (or even up to $3 higher than minimum wage) and on welfare. What does that say about wages?
    that they are low. gotta start somewhere.

    Oh I know the mantra...employers are not required nor should they have to pay a living wage. And yet it is often those same employers that complain about welfare systems. Never thinking that maybe if they did pay a living wage then not near as many people would be on welfare.
    that is true. the number would be far larger.

    But nope, its the poors fault that they don't get out and try and "better" themselves.
    that is true. ultimately, it comes down to decisions you make. mind you, the rest of society can make it more or less difficult for you; and "living wage" restrictions would of course make it much more difficult (as minimum wage laws make it somewhat more difficult now).

  7. #37
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    We live in a technically sophisticated society. Potentially the greatest information age in history. Instant communication worldwide. The potential to share wisdom, knowledge, truth, and use these virtues to end starvation, war, deprivation, and disease. Not the way it has worked. We sell cures for diseasse. We generate wars as economy builders. We monopolize food. We take advantage of starvation and disease to control resources. A person has to be nearly a genius to figure out what is the truth in our Media. Our money is an outright fraud. Our world is a step away from global disaster caused by Global Warming and we are twiddling our thumbs and eating our Christmas pie. Does this all sound like collective intelligence or insanity? The system can only work if we are men of good will and it ain't gonna' happen. Internationally, banking has gained control of politics and and the voters can be go to hell. Money runs the planet and it's a damn poor money at that. I don't think one person in one thousand really knows what's going on in our gov't and they don't care as long as they got their TV, Computer, car, and some valium. We need more than a third political party. Hell, I'm a Green, have been for years. Powerless, underfunded, ridiculed, but with a shared paradigm as regards our gov't. It is absolutely corrupt. Wars for profit. Wars for building and maintaining our economy. Wars to keep us from thinking about real problems. Demonizing enemies to get people's focus away from serious problems like dysfunctional gov't. Put real names on the people whose money runs our gov't. Big money, not the Koch brothers. Sounds like a rant. Think about it.+

  8. #38
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    The system is broken. Corruption is rampant in politics, because it's allowed to be. Money is the root of it all. Our government is being bought and paid for by special interests that literally bribe our congress to introduce and pass legislation favorable to them. Congress says, "thank you very much" and pockets the money. Even politicians who want to be "clean" soon find they cannot be. They need that bribe money... commonly called campaign contributions... in order to keep their seats and get re-elected. So they take the money, introduce the legislation that will make some corporation, union, or other special interest group fat, happy and rich, and ignore the needs of the citizenry... because they've already been bought by folks who have purchased bills to basically screw the citizenry to make themselves rich.

    And it's the People's fault. People who are so consumed by their own problems that they can't see the government is the cause of those problems. People who feel powerless and turn their back on their duty to choose qualified, honest representatives. People too apathetic to care as long as they have what they personally need and want.

    Until we see meaningful campaign finance reform, so that every candidate is on a level financial field and lobbyists are prevented from purchasing legislation for their own self-interest, nothing will change.

  9. #39
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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    Gridlock is a common thing in the United States. These ideas come up all the time when we have divided government. "Oh the system is broken man" etc. It's simply untrue. The only possible thing I can see is that we really have a lot less professional politicians on the hill who are able to compromise and bust out deals like the ones of the mid 20th century until after Newt's time.

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    Re: Is the System Broken or are People at Fault or Both?

    I'm pretty sure its a provable fact, America is getting dumber as time goes on. Doesn't that just answer everything right there? I mean, I did vote for the "Both" one but the System is broken mostly because OF the citizens not giving a ****. Then again what are you going to do? You just get the choice of Politician A who is evil or Politician B who is just a little less evil. There are people in the government who are trying to do the right stuff, either way you look at it left or right, but its just not enough.

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