• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is the OWS against Capitalism?

Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?


  • Total voters
    69
Isn't this (chart below) enough for you?

What about not trying to spend ourself out of crisis. We did the same in 2001, and is one of the main reasons, the crisis turned so bad, because it inflated the bouble.

Government Spending Chart: United States 2000-2015 - Federal State Local Data

We didn't "spend". We gave tax cuts to the wealthy. And spending when there is a balanced budget and peace and prosperity is bad and thats what bush did. There was no need to do that in 2001.
 
We didn't "spend". We gave tax cuts to the wealthy. And spending when there is a balanced budget and peace and prosperity is bad and thats what bush did. There was no need to do that in 2001.

Actually, Bush gave tax cuts to everyone. Did you forget about that in your zeal to blame the wealthy?
 
We didn't "spend". We gave tax cuts to the wealthy. And spending when there is a balanced budget and peace and prosperity is bad and thats what bush did. There was no need to do that in 2001.
We didn't spend?! 2/3 of the stimulus was spending.

What tax cuts for the wealthy? Bush tax cuts that got extended was a tax cut to everyone, and was not extended in 2009. Most of the tax cuts in the stimlus were given to the middle class, not the rich.

American left should focus more on fixing the economy, creating a system that can't be corrupted and creating a system where people aren't left behind. Blaming the 1% will not improve the standard of living of the 99%. Taxing them so much that they or their money leave the US won't help either.
 
Last edited:
Actually, Bush gave tax cuts to everyone. Did you forget about that in your zeal to blame the wealthy?

The tax cuts given to the middle class were negligible compared to the ones given to the wealthy. I hope you knew that.
 
The tax cuts given to the middle class were negligible compared to the ones given to the wealthy. I hope you knew that.

If you would please expand on this thought. My knowledge/research on the BTC's is that the reduction in rates progressively increased from the top bracket to the bottom bracket. Per the IRS data the vast majority of the reduction in $'s came from the middle three quintiles.
 
The tax cuts given to the middle class were negligible compared to the ones given to the wealthy. I hope you knew that.

What's fair is fair, eh? Everyone got a tax cut.

But...to get back on topic, do you think OWS cares about any of this? Do you think they agree with you that the wealthy are to blame?

Do you think they are anti-capitalists?

Do you think they even know what they are?
 
The tax cuts given to the middle class were negligible compared to the ones given to the wealthy. I hope you knew that.
Except they weren't. 75% of the tax cuts was given to the middle class. And the rich increased their share of taxes. You seriously need to stop listening to propaganda.

But my question to you. Do you think America would work, if you scared all the rich people away? Or their money? You can try to force them to invest in America. There has been countries attempting to work against market forces. Venezuela is a good example. Would you live in Venezuela?

Also, no country with a welfare state, only tax the rich, and not the middle class. What makes you think America is so different?
 
Last edited:
What's fair is fair, eh? Everyone got a tax cut.

But...to get back on topic, do you think OWS cares about any of this? Do you think they agree with you that the wealthy are to blame?

Do you think they are anti-capitalists?

Do you think they even know what they are?

Yes wealthy are to blame. Their wealth allows them to buy these politicians. The 99 percent have no say in what happens.
 
Last edited:
If you would please expand on this thought. My knowledge/research on the BTC's is that the reduction in rates progressively increased from the top bracket to the bottom bracket. Per the IRS data the vast majority of the reduction in $'s came from the middle three quintiles.

"The percentage increase in after-tax income tilts greatly in favor of those making over $1 million, for one, especially when compared to Americans making between $40,000-$50,000."

10 Years Later, How Bush-Era Tax Cuts Changed America [CHARTS]
 
"The percentage increase in after-tax income tilts greatly in favor of those making over $1 million, for one, especially when compared to Americans making between $40,000-$50,000."

10 Years Later, How Bush-Era Tax Cuts Changed America [CHARTS]
Just looking at the ones earning more than a million becomes wrong, because the people with really high incomes, make consumers pay through higher prices if taxes are increased, because they own companies. I didn't say it was fair, Bush did give somewhat more to the rich, but he gave 75% to the rest. Also, the ones with high incomes have increased their share.

Would you be in favor (like I am) to reverse all of Bush tax cuts. Not like Obama, who only wants to reverse parts of it.

You must be if it only favors the rich.
 
Just looking at the ones earning more than a million becomes wrong, because the people with really high incomes, make consumers pay through higher prices if taxes are increased, because they own companies. I didn't say it was fair, Bush did give somewhat more to the rich, but he gave 75% to the rest. Also, the ones with high incomes have increased their share.

Would you be in favor (like I am) to reverse all of Bush tax cuts. Not like Obama, who only wants to reverse parts of it.


You must be if it only favors the rich.
Only the wealthy right now because of the bad economy. That would help us with our deficit and provide relief to folks that need it the most. Tax cuts for lower and middle class help the economy more because they spend every dollar they earn.
 
Only the wealthy right now because of the bad economy. That would help us with our deficit and provide relief to folks that need it the most. Tax cuts for lower and middle class help the economy more because they spend every dollar they earn.
But you just said the tax cuts for the middle class was insignificant.

Then why not reverse all of it?


BTW: The theory is a little bit more complicated than what keynesian theory would say. You can't just have demand, you need to have supply as well. If you give people lots of money, but companies are not willing to invest, you will get inflation. Also, we have to take into account the crowding out effect as well.

Fact is, Obama did exactly what you wanted. He gave tax cuts to the middle class, he increased spending more than he cut taxes, but the economy failed to recover, because he failed on the supply side.
 
Last edited:
But you just said the tax cuts for the middle class was insignificant.

Then why not reverse all of it?
I said that they were negligible compared to the tax cuts that wealthy folks got. I never said they were insignificant.
 
Yes wealthy are to blame. Their wealth allows them to buy these politicians. The 99 percent have no say in what happens.

LOL!!

You didn't answer my questions. Could it be that you are in the wrong thread?

Have you checked the thread title lately?
 
LOL!!

You didn't answer my questions. Could it be that you are in the wrong thread?

Have you checked the thread title lately?

I already answered the question in previous posts. Go back and read it.
 
I said that they were negligible compared to the tax cuts that wealthy folks got. I never said they were insignificant.
Alright, so Bush tax cuts for the middle class was significant. I would disagree it is negligble to the tax cuts to the wealthy, 75% of the cuts were to the middle class.

You didn't respond to one of my questions. All counties with a welfare state, makes everyone pay large amounts. What makes you think America is so different that America only needs to tax the very rich?
 
Alright, so Bush tax cuts for the middle class was significant. I would disagree it is negligble to the tax cuts to the wealthy, 75% of the cuts were to the middle class.

You didn't respond to one of my questions. All counties with a welfare state, makes everyone pay large amounts. What makes you think America is so different that America only needs to tax the very rich?

All those countries dont run huge deficits that we do and all we are doing is returning to clinton rates. I believe in a progressive tax system and so do most americans wealthy and poor.
 
The movements we see today ISN'T about the system of Capitalism. It's about the abuses of capitalism.

Charles Hugh Smith said:
If we can finally be truthful with ourselves as a nation, then we must admit that our financial system is fundamentally based on lies, fraud, embezzlement, misinformation, perverse filters and incentives, shadow systems that mock transparency and regulation, class privilege and the systemic flouting of the rule of law.

This is the truth that hurts because it reveals the financial system as one stupendous exploitative fraud; but it also reveals the complicity and irrelevance of our judicial system and the complete capture of the legislative and Executive processes of governance.

There is a system of government in which rule of law is merely a propaganda screen, where financial and political Elites run the show and escape the consequences of their actions: it's called tyranny. The truth is that we live in a financial tyranny
.
 
All those countries dont run huge deficits that we do and all we are doing is returning to clinton rates. I believe in a progressive tax system and so do most americans wealthy and poor.
But America already has the most progressive tax system in the western world. You want to make it even more progressive. The countries with welfare states, which I presume you support, have high taxes on everyone. Not just the rich.

And yes many of these countries do run high budget deficits.

And returning to Clinton tax rates would mean that the tax rates for the poor would also increase. Why shouldn't we increase taxes on everyone. Why should the rich pay for everything? Or, why would you think the rich would pay for everything. If taxes become to burdensome, they will just move their money and capital abroad.
 
But America already has the most progressive tax system in the western world. You want to make it even more progressive. The countries with welfare states, which I presume you support, have high taxes on everyone. Not just the rich.

And yes many of these countries do run high budget deficits.

And returning to Clinton tax rates would mean that the tax rates for the poor would also increase. Why shouldn't we increase taxes on everyone. Why should the rich pay for everything? Or, why would you think the rich would pay for everything. If taxes become to burdensome, they will just move their money and capital abroad.


Because its the fiscally responsible thing to do. The middle class folks already see their benefits and entitlements being cut. Its time for the wealthy to give up their tax breaks too.
 
Because its the fiscally responsible thing to do. The middle class folks already see their benefits and entitlements being cut. Its time for the wealthy to give up their tax breaks too.
Why is it the fiscally responsible thing to do? Taxing the rich even more, will just make them invest even less in the US. Taxes for the rich in the US, is just as high as the rest of the word, in fact it is higher than many countries. I hope you realize how much they are already paying.

For me your policy sound extremely fiscally irresponsible, because there is no way you will be able to cover the deficit by only increasing the taxes on the rich, and it will damage the economy, because they are going to invest elsewhere.

For me it sounds like you support feel good politics. Feel good policies were one of the main causes for what created this mess in the first place. Such as making a national policy that everyone can get a house, that they did everything to stop the crisis in 2001 so they inflated the bouble, and the budget deficit.

You still haven't responded to the simple question. What makes you think America is so different from Europe, so that America can pursue different policies, but get similar outcomes? In Europe, the taxes are high for everyone, and that is why they can afford a welfare state. America will not afford a welfare state by just taxing the rich.
 
I would approve of repealing tax breaks for the rich if they were moderate and used exclusively for paying off the deficit and then only if we have a fiscally responsible government (Nobama).
 
Back
Top Bottom