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Is the OWS against Capitalism?

Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

  • Total voters
    69
OWS is pretty much a dead movement now, isn't it?


Haven't heard much lately.
 
X Factor said:
I know, I know, OWS has this great, thoughtful, coherent message, that is until a decent amount of people actually disagrees with them, then they're all individuals who actually have no common message at all. LOL
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You've got to work on your reading comprehension there buddy. I've never said that OWS has one single message. I've explicitly said exactly the opposite. Several times.

X Factor said:
Anyway, my question has more to do with why you think it's a bad thing if OWS is perceived as being anti-capitalist.
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And as I explained already...

Aderleth said:
I think the issue comes not from the possibility that some elements of OWS might have anti-capitalist tendencies (which is both true, and obvious, if you spend any time around them), but with the notion that all they're bringing to the table is stereotypically rabid and irrational anti-capitalism not backed up by any kind of coherent knowledge or thought.
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So to put it another way, the problem is not that being anti-capitalist is inherently bad, the problem comes with people doing exactly what you're doing: putting a diverse group of people with somewhat similar grievances and frequently very different approaches and philosophies for dealing with those grievances into a single box and labeling them all anti-capitalist. It's a problem of overgeneralization. It's hard to have an intelligent discourse with someone who is unwilling to admit to himself that there are more than two teams on the playing field.
 
Goshin said:
OWS is pretty much a dead movement now, isn't it?


Haven't heard much lately.
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They're still around on the West Coast, and there are elements on the East Coast that having retreated to plan their next steps. Trust me, you'll be hearing more from them before too long.
 
X Factor said:
I know, I know, OWS has this great, thoughtful, coherent message, that is until a decent amount of people actually disagrees with them, then they're all individuals who actually have no common message at all. LOL

Anyway, my question has more to do with why you think it's a bad thing if OWS is perceived as being anti-capitalist.
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I dont know of anyone who claims that OWS is coherent. Knowledge of their lack of leadership and lack of a unifying list of demands is common, though not universal, as you are demonstrating

And why do you think the tea party is a racist movement?
 
Zyphlin said:
Some absolutely are against capitalism. Some aren't. My take would be that the movement as a whole isn't "anti-capitalism" but rather pro-regulation. I think its rather neutral about capitalism...IE its not really supporting it, its not really against it, its not its focus. Its more about regulation and wealth redistribution which is not incapatable with Capitalism in and of itself (if it was, then we aren't capitalistic in this country currently). There's likely individuals in there that have anti-capitalistic views, just like there are tea parties with heavily social views, but that doesn't mean that the movement itself as a whole represents that view.
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Nice response. A realistic and rational assessment, I believe.
 
sangha said:
And thank you for clarifying that the teabaggers are all racists :roll:
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That whistling you hear is the point whizzing over your head, but I suppose I can play your game too. The TEA party is no more racist than the fleabaggers are anti-Semetic.
 
Wake said:
I have heard that the OWS is not against capitalism at all, though I have seen many OWS groups and signs that indicate they are indeed against capitalism. What is the truth? Are they against capitalism or not? I wuld reason that during their earlier days they came to protest against businesses and corporations, which are all a part of capitalism. What do you think about this? I see OWS members on YouTube chanting against the crimes of capitalism while holding their signs that reflect their belief.
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1) The OWS is not a unified movement - rather, it is a movement of a wide variety of political beliefs that is protesting our current financial system and how it interacts with government.

2) While there are some OWSers that, indeed, are against capitalism I believe that the majority of OWSers are against unregulated capitalism and would much prefer more regulated capitalism.
 
Each OWS group has NO leaders.

They also have various commitees, each without a leader.

How someone could think that its possible to narrow down any OWS beliefs, is just silly.
 
samsmart said:
1) The OWS is not a unified movement - rather, it is a movement of a wide variety of political beliefs that is protesting our current financial system and how it interacts with government.

2) While there are some OWSers that, indeed, are against capitalism I believe that the majority of OWSers are against unregulated capitalism and would much prefer more regulated capitalism.
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OWS is not a unified movement? Well then why do they stand in solidarity with each other and are working on demands? Wouldnt demands require a certain amount of unity to come to a consensus to release demands? Speaking of consensus, each of the occupations has an General assembly. Each General assembly have whats they call spokes-councils (Spokes Council Proposal | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street). The point that I am making is that OWS is interlinked with all of the occupation and they work together under the principles of solidarity. ANd to remind you solidarity means : unity (as of a group or class) that produces or is based on community of interests, objectives, and standard.

So you are mistaken when you assert that the occupy movement is not unified in their actions and goals.

Principles of Solidarity

What follows is a living document that will be revised
through democratic process of General Assembly
On September 17, 2011, people from all across the United States of America and the world came to protest the blatant injustices of our times perpetuated by the economic and political elites. On the 17th we as individuals rose up against political disenfranchisement and social and economic injustice. We spoke out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street. Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves as autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent civil disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect, acceptance, and love. It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans and to the world, Enough! How many crises does it take? We are the 99% and we have moved to reclaim our mortgaged future.Through a direct democratic process, we have come together as individuals and crafted these principles of solidarity, which are points of unity that include but are not limited to:
Engaging in direct and transparent participatory democracy;
Exercising personal and collective responsibility;
Recognizing individuals’ inherent privilege and the influence it has on all interactions;
Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;
Redefining how labor is valued;
The sanctity of individual privacy;
The belief that education is human right; and
Endeavoring to practice and support wide application of open source.
We are daring to imagine a new socio-political and economic alternative that offers greater possibility of equality. We are consolidating the other proposed principles of solidarity, after which demands will follow Principles of Solidarity | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street
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On your second point that OWS is not against Capitalism but only against unregulated Capitalism, since you were mistaken on your first point please provide something from the actual websites of the main occupations that states what you are claiming. Not that the mistake in the first point invalid dates your second point, but please show how you came to that conclusion, so that we all know what you know.
 
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FreedomFromAll said:
OWS is not a unified movement? Well then why do they stand in solidarity with each other and are working on demands? Wouldnt demands require a certain amount of unity to come to a consensus to release demands? Speaking of consensus, each of the occupations has an General assembly. Each General assembly have whats they call spokes-councils (Spokes Council Proposal | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street). The point that I am making is that OWS is interlinked with all of the occupation and they work together under the principles of solidarity. ANd to remind you solidarity means : unity (as of a group or class) that produces or is based on community of interests, objectives, and standard.

So you are mistaken when you assert that the occupy movement is not unified in their actions and goals.



On your second point that OWS is not against Capitalism but only against unregulated Capitalism, since you were mistaken on your first point please provide something form the actual websites of the main occupations that states what you are claiming.
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If they were already "unified," there wouldn't be a need for debating "What our demands are," now would there?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
OWS is not a unified movement? Well then why do they stand in solidarity with each other and are working on demands? Wouldnt demands require a certain amount of unity to come to a consensus to release demands?.....
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there must be at least 20 OWS groups in the USA alone. what evidence do you have that they are coordinating on an agenda and demands?
 
FreedomFromAll said:
OWS is not a unified movement? Well then why do they stand in solidarity with each other and are working on demands? Wouldnt demands require a certain amount of unity to come to a consensus to release demands? Speaking of consensus, each of the occupations has an General assembly. Each General assembly have whats they call spokes-councils (Spokes Council Proposal | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street). The point that I am making is that OWS is interlinked with all of the occupation and they work together under the principles of solidarity. ANd to remind you solidarity means : unity (as of a group or class) that produces or is based on community of interests, objectives, and standard.

So you are mistaken when you assert that the occupy movement is not unified in their actions and goals.



On your second point that OWS is not against Capitalism but only against unregulated Capitalism, since you were mistaken on your first point please provide something form the actual websites of the main occupations that states what you are claiming.
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The Democratic Party and the Republican Party work together to pass legislation and serve in the executive branches at all levels of government.

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are hardly unified together.
 
Thunder said:
there must be at least 20 OWS groups in the USA alone. what evidence do you have that they are coordinating on an agenda and demands?
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Even more, the very fact that there hasn't been any unified release of demands makes it pretty freaking obvious that there is no consensus as to what they should be.
 
samsmart said:
The Democratic Party and the Republican Party work together to pass legislation and serve in the executive branches at all levels of government.

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are hardly unified together.
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Are those tow parties working in solidarity as OWS asserts that everyone in the movement is?
 
Thunder said:
the OWS group in NYC is merely one of maybe 20+ groups in the USA.

OWS NYC does NOT speak for the OWS movement.
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The NYCGA are the fathers of the movement shouldnt their opinions matter I mean there would not be an OWS if it were not for them.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Are those tow parties working in solidarity as OWS asserts that everyone in the movement is?
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That are in solidarity in regards to their protests against the financial institutions and the government.

Which doesn't mean they are in solidarity in regards to the change needed for financial institutions and the government.
 
samsmart said:
That are in solidarity in regards to their protests against the financial institutions and the government.

Which doesn't mean they are in solidarity in regards to the change needed for financial institutions and the government.
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1) The OWS is not a unified movement - rather, it is a movement of a wide variety of political beliefs that is protesting our current financial system and how it interacts with government
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Now you have moved the point to a solution?
 
This is rather ironic twist of assertions. The protesters themselves claim to be unified as the 99% and assert that they are a focused movement. Yet you guys claim that they are not. DOesnt your position just play into the Rights hand? Everywhere else the debate is the opposite.
 
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