View Poll Results: Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

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  • Yes

    50 52.08%
  • No

    41 42.71%
  • I don't know

    5 5.21%
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Thread: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

  1. #51
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    OWS is pretty much a dead movement now, isn't it?


    Haven't heard much lately.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I know, I know, OWS has this great, thoughtful, coherent message, that is until a decent amount of people actually disagrees with them, then they're all individuals who actually have no common message at all. LOL
    You've got to work on your reading comprehension there buddy. I've never said that OWS has one single message. I've explicitly said exactly the opposite. Several times.

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Anyway, my question has more to do with why you think it's a bad thing if OWS is perceived as being anti-capitalist.
    And as I explained already...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I think the issue comes not from the possibility that some elements of OWS might have anti-capitalist tendencies (which is both true, and obvious, if you spend any time around them), but with the notion that all they're bringing to the table is stereotypically rabid and irrational anti-capitalism not backed up by any kind of coherent knowledge or thought.
    So to put it another way, the problem is not that being anti-capitalist is inherently bad, the problem comes with people doing exactly what you're doing: putting a diverse group of people with somewhat similar grievances and frequently very different approaches and philosophies for dealing with those grievances into a single box and labeling them all anti-capitalist. It's a problem of overgeneralization. It's hard to have an intelligent discourse with someone who is unwilling to admit to himself that there are more than two teams on the playing field.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    OWS is pretty much a dead movement now, isn't it?


    Haven't heard much lately.
    They're still around on the West Coast, and there are elements on the East Coast that having retreated to plan their next steps. Trust me, you'll be hearing more from them before too long.

  4. #54
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I know, I know, OWS has this great, thoughtful, coherent message, that is until a decent amount of people actually disagrees with them, then they're all individuals who actually have no common message at all. LOL

    Anyway, my question has more to do with why you think it's a bad thing if OWS is perceived as being anti-capitalist.
    I dont know of anyone who claims that OWS is coherent. Knowledge of their lack of leadership and lack of a unifying list of demands is common, though not universal, as you are demonstrating

    And why do you think the tea party is a racist movement?
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Some absolutely are against capitalism. Some aren't. My take would be that the movement as a whole isn't "anti-capitalism" but rather pro-regulation. I think its rather neutral about capitalism...IE its not really supporting it, its not really against it, its not its focus. Its more about regulation and wealth redistribution which is not incapatable with Capitalism in and of itself (if it was, then we aren't capitalistic in this country currently). There's likely individuals in there that have anti-capitalistic views, just like there are tea parties with heavily social views, but that doesn't mean that the movement itself as a whole represents that view.
    Nice response. A realistic and rational assessment, I believe.

  6. #56
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    And thank you for clarifying that the teabaggers are all racists
    That whistling you hear is the point whizzing over your head, but I suppose I can play your game too. The TEA party is no more racist than the fleabaggers are anti-Semetic.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I have heard that the OWS is not against capitalism at all, though I have seen many OWS groups and signs that indicate they are indeed against capitalism. What is the truth? Are they against capitalism or not? I wuld reason that during their earlier days they came to protest against businesses and corporations, which are all a part of capitalism. What do you think about this? I see OWS members on YouTube chanting against the crimes of capitalism while holding their signs that reflect their belief.
    1) The OWS is not a unified movement - rather, it is a movement of a wide variety of political beliefs that is protesting our current financial system and how it interacts with government.

    2) While there are some OWSers that, indeed, are against capitalism I believe that the majority of OWSers are against unregulated capitalism and would much prefer more regulated capitalism.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Each OWS group has NO leaders.

    They also have various commitees, each without a leader.

    How someone could think that its possible to narrow down any OWS beliefs, is just silly.

  9. #59
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    1) The OWS is not a unified movement - rather, it is a movement of a wide variety of political beliefs that is protesting our current financial system and how it interacts with government.

    2) While there are some OWSers that, indeed, are against capitalism I believe that the majority of OWSers are against unregulated capitalism and would much prefer more regulated capitalism.
    OWS is not a unified movement? Well then why do they stand in solidarity with each other and are working on demands? Wouldnt demands require a certain amount of unity to come to a consensus to release demands? Speaking of consensus, each of the occupations has an General assembly. Each General assembly have whats they call spokes-councils (Spokes Council Proposal | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street). The point that I am making is that OWS is interlinked with all of the occupation and they work together under the principles of solidarity. ANd to remind you solidarity means : unity (as of a group or class) that produces or is based on community of interests, objectives, and standard.

    So you are mistaken when you assert that the occupy movement is not unified in their actions and goals.

    Principles of Solidarity

    What follows is a living document that will be revised
    through democratic process of General Assembly
    On September 17, 2011, people from all across the United States of America and the world came to protest the blatant injustices of our times perpetuated by the economic and political elites. On the 17th we as individuals rose up against political disenfranchisement and social and economic injustice. We spoke out, resisted, and successfully occupied Wall Street. Today, we proudly remain in Liberty Square constituting ourselves as autonomous political beings engaged in non-violent civil disobedience and building solidarity based on mutual respect, acceptance, and love. It is from these reclaimed grounds that we say to all Americans and to the world, Enough! How many crises does it take? We are the 99% and we have moved to reclaim our mortgaged future.Through a direct democratic process, we have come together as individuals and crafted these principles of solidarity, which are points of unity that include but are not limited to:
    Engaging in direct and transparent participatory democracy;
    Exercising personal and collective responsibility;
    Recognizing individuals’ inherent privilege and the influence it has on all interactions;
    Empowering one another against all forms of oppression;
    Redefining how labor is valued;
    The sanctity of individual privacy;
    The belief that education is human right; and
    Endeavoring to practice and support wide application of open source.
    We are daring to imagine a new socio-political and economic alternative that offers greater possibility of equality. We are consolidating the other proposed principles of solidarity, after which demands will follow Principles of Solidarity | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street
    On your second point that OWS is not against Capitalism but only against unregulated Capitalism, since you were mistaken on your first point please provide something from the actual websites of the main occupations that states what you are claiming. Not that the mistake in the first point invalid dates your second point, but please show how you came to that conclusion, so that we all know what you know.
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 12-11-11 at 10:32 PM.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    OWS is not a unified movement? Well then why do they stand in solidarity with each other and are working on demands? Wouldnt demands require a certain amount of unity to come to a consensus to release demands? Speaking of consensus, each of the occupations has an General assembly. Each General assembly have whats they call spokes-councils (Spokes Council Proposal | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street). The point that I am making is that OWS is interlinked with all of the occupation and they work together under the principles of solidarity. ANd to remind you solidarity means : unity (as of a group or class) that produces or is based on community of interests, objectives, and standard.

    So you are mistaken when you assert that the occupy movement is not unified in their actions and goals.



    On your second point that OWS is not against Capitalism but only against unregulated Capitalism, since you were mistaken on your first point please provide something form the actual websites of the main occupations that states what you are claiming.
    If they were already "unified," there wouldn't be a need for debating "What our demands are," now would there?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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