View Poll Results: Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

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  • Yes

    50 52.08%
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    41 42.71%
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Thread: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

  1. #501
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    I have no idea but it is idiotic. I can only suppose that the GOP thinks ‘because the Dems want it we are against it’…
    That's why I vote for Democrats.


    After the recovery AND AFTER WE ADDRESS THE SPENDING I would agree. Spending at +/-25% of GDP is unsustainable.
    The Democrats offered $3 in spending cuts for every $1 of tax increases. The GOP turned it down.



    What SPECIFIC tax breaks do they get for going overseas? The section 199 reference I gave you earlier promotes DOMESTIC activities.

    S.3816:

    "Official Summary

    9/21/2010--Introduced.Creating American Jobs and Ending Offshoring Act - Amends the Internal Revenue Code to:

    (1) exempt from employment taxes for a 24-month period employers who hire a employee who replaces another employee who is not a citizen or permanent resident of the United States and who performs similar duties overseas;

    (2) deny any tax deduction, deduction for loss, or tax credit for the cost of an American jobs offshoring transaction (defined as any transaction in which a taxpayer reduces or eliminates the operation of a trade or business in connection with the start-up or expansion of such trade or business outside the United States); and

    (3) eliminate the deferral of tax on income of a controlled foreign corporation attributable to property imported into the United States by such corporation or a related person, except for property exported before substantial use in the United States and for agricultural commodities not grown in the United States in commercially marketable quantities."

    S.3816: Creating American Jobs and Ending Offshoring Act - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress
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  2. #502
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Umm, you posted a quote from Adbusters. Who do you think Lasn and White are?



    The person in the pic below is also "directly involved" in OWS. I guess this means you think he's controlling OWS

    Did that idiot lay out the outline of OWS. Did he conceive the idea of OWS. Did he buy a domain that is the internet hub for OWS? Has he done interviews where he admits to starting OWS with a vision of how it will play out?

    Damn a photo of a strawman argument nice touch. Try as you might but Lasn is doing more than screaming like an idiot holding up ripped paper.

    99% plan new tax war on Super Rich in 2012 - Paul B. Farrell - MarketWatch Dec. 20, 2011 How? In a recent Washington Post op-ed column, OWS leaders are clearly accelerating their battle strategy in 2012. In what amounts to a new declaration of war that promises to electrify the 2012 elections, OWS will be using new asymmetrical warfare strategies, write the two men who’ve been the driving force behind the movement since early this year, Kalle Lasn editor-in-chief of Adbusters magazine and senior editor Micah White.

    Listen to some of the specific guerilla tactics they warn will be used in their coming 2012 “American Spring” assault: A “marked escalation of surprise, playful, precision disruptions, rush-hour flash mobs, bank occupations, ‘occupy squads’ and edgy theatrics.” And in a New Yorker magazine interview shortly after New York Mayor Bloomberg’s “military-style operation,” Lasn warned: “this means escalation, pushing us one step closer to a revolution.
    Meanwhile, Kalle Lasn, founder of Vancouver’s anti-consumerist magazine Adbusters, has been internationally acknowledged as the mastermind behind the global Occupy movement. Canadians feel like they’re on top of the world: poll - Canada - Macleans.ca
    And this was just for irony
    The Occupy Wall Street slogan was first published in a poster designed by Adbusters, and the day it began, September 17, is the birthday of Mr. Lasn’s mother. Adbusters Publisher Kalle Lasn to Write an Occupy Wall Street ‘Textbook of the Future’ | The New York Observer
    And just because you are clueless read this:
    Lasn and White quickly hammered out a post-Zuccotti plan. White would draft a new memorandum, suggesting that Phase I—signs, meetings, camps, marches—was now over. Phase II would involve a swarming strategy of “surprise attacks against business as usual,” with the potential to be “more intense and visceral, depending on how the Bloombergs of the world react.” White could hear the excitement in Lasn’s voice. Even as Lasn vented about the morning’s counterrevolution, he was doing what he could not to splash. Pre-Occupied: The origins and future of Occupy Wall Street, Mattathias Schwartz
    but wait it gets better:
    This is how Occupy Wall Street began: as one of many half-formed plans circulating through conversations between Lasn and White, who lives in Berkeley and has not seen Lasn in person for more than four years. Neither can recall who first had the idea of trying to take over lower Manhattan. In early June, Adbusters sent an e-mail to subscribers stating that “America needs its own Tahrir.” The next day, White wrote to Lasn that he was “very excited about the Occupy Wall Street meme. . . . I think we should make this happen.” He proposed three possible Web sites: OccupyWallStreet.org, AcampadaWallStreet.org, and TakeWallStreet.org.

    “No. 1 is best,” Lasn replied, on June 9th. That evening, he registered OccupyWallStreet.org. Pre-Occupied: The origins and future of Occupy Wall Street, Mattathias Schwartz
    Oh and even better here are your Anarchists that started OWS they were all Adbusters about 50 of them:
    This resulted in some confusion on August 2nd, when scores of graduate students and labor activists showed up, expecting a rally for New Yorkers Against Budget Cuts. They erected a small stage and began giving amplified speeches, which alienated the roughly fifty Adbusters supporters, mostly anarchists, who came expecting a planning session. There was some angry shouting before a group of anarchists broke off, sat down in a circle on the cobblestones, and held their own meeting.

    The anarchists immediately agreed to use “horizontal” organizing methods, according to which meetings are known as general assemblies and participants make decisions by consensus and give continuous feedback through hand gestures. Moving one’s fingers in an undulating motion, palm out, pointing up, means approval of what’s being said. Palm in, pointing down, means disapproval. Crossed arms signals a “block,” a serious objection that must be heard. Some participants knew this style of meeting from left-wing traditions stretching back to the civil-rights movement and earlier. Pre-Occupied: The origins and future of Occupy Wall Street, Mattathias Schwartz
    Oh and then there is this part where Adbusters grapples with how to manipulate the 99%:
    Soon after finishing the declaration, the early organizers started to have a problem: their solutions were to be accessible to everyone, but so was their protest. The crowds at those early meetings came in response to messages broadcast over a narrow channel, the Adbusters list. They were committed to a tangible goal, with an immediate deadline. But in early October, as the national media seized on the Zuccotti Park story, the rest of the ninety-nine per cent started showing up. The G.A. had to tackle three new challenges simultaneously: holding ground; managing a semi-permanent village; and guiding a much larger and more cacophonous political conversation. All this had to be done with almost no heat, running water, or electricity. Pre-Occupied: The origins and future of Occupy Wall Street, Mattathias Schwartz
    So what were you saying? That Lasn was like that guy in the hat you posted? Not the "driving force"?

  3. #503
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    S.3816:

    "Official Summary

    9/21/2010--Introduced.Creating American Jobs and Ending Offshoring Act - Amends the Internal Revenue Code to:
    That appears to be a bill that would help to prevent jobs from going overseas. I asked you to support 'SPECIFIC tax breaks do they get for going overseas' which you claimed was happening.

  4. #504
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    That appears to be a bill that would help to prevent jobs from going overseas. I asked you to support 'SPECIFIC tax breaks do they get for going overseas' which you claimed was happening.
    The bill language lists the tax breaks for outsourcing that would be eliminated. It was quoted in my post.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #505
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    They are not against capitalism. The main reason it started was to protest against big business in politics.
    Where did hear that? It's the politicians in business that are the problem.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The bill language lists the tax breaks for outsourcing that would be eliminated. It was quoted in my post.
    You mean this:

    2) deny any tax deduction, deduction for loss, or tax credit for the cost of an American jobs offshoring transaction (defined as any transaction in which a taxpayer reduces or eliminates the operation of a trade or business in connection with the start-up or expansion of such trade or business outside the United States); and

    Kinda lacks the specificity that I requested but whatever..three times, done. I posted a SPECIFIC reference to IRS tax code that supported domestic activities. Consider that 'multinationals' overseas operations support increased domestic investment and hiring by decreasing companies' costs, expanding their foreign-customer base, and increasing domestic demand for higher-skilled labor.'

    Outsourcing Jobs and Taxes - Council on Foreign Relations

  7. #507
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?


  8. #508
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    You mean this:

    2) deny any tax deduction, deduction for loss, or tax credit for the cost of an American jobs offshoring transaction (defined as any transaction in which a taxpayer reduces or eliminates the operation of a trade or business in connection with the start-up or expansion of such trade or business outside the United States); and

    Kinda lacks the specificity that I requested but whatever..three times, done. I posted a SPECIFIC reference to IRS tax code that supported domestic activities. Consider that 'multinationals' overseas operations support increased domestic investment and hiring by decreasing companies' costs, expanding their foreign-customer base, and increasing domestic demand for higher-skilled labor.'

    Outsourcing Jobs and Taxes - Council on Foreign Relations
    These are the tax breaks for companies to outsource investment and jobs that are specified in S.3816

    any tax deduction
    deduction for loss
    tax credit for the cost of an American jobs offshoring transaction
    deferral of tax on income


    If you want more specificity than this, contact your Senator.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    If you want more specificity than this, contact your Senator.
    So you requoted my quote...
    Typical...my Senator is not on DP making wildly unsubstantiated claims...done

  10. #510
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    That appears to be a bill that would help to prevent jobs from going overseas. I asked you to support 'SPECIFIC tax breaks do they get for going overseas' which you claimed was happening.
    "SEC. 201. DISALLOWANCE OF DEDUCTION, LOSS, OR CREDIT FOR CERTAIN ITEMS INCURRED IN MOVING AMERICAN JOBS OFFSHORE.

    (a) In General- Part IX of subchapter B of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new section:
    `SEC. 280I. EXPENDITURES INCURRED IN MOVING AMERICAN JOBS OFFSHORE.

    `(a) Disallowance- No deduction, loss, or credit shall be allowed under this title for any taxable year for any disallowed amount.
    `(b) Disallowed Amount- For purposes of this section--
    `(1) IN GENERAL- The term `disallowed amount' means any amount which is paid or incurred during the taxable year which is properly allocable to an American jobs offshoring transaction.
    `(2) LOSSES- Such term shall include any loss from any sale, exchange, abandonment, or other disposition of property in connection with an American jobs offshoring transaction.
    `(3) EXCEPTION FOR COSTS RELATED TO DISPLACED WORKERS- Such term shall not include any amount paid or incurred for assistance to employees within the United States whose jobs are being lost as part of an American jobs offshoring transaction, including any severance pay, outplacement services, or employee retraining.
    `(c) American Jobs Offshoring Transaction- For purposes of this section--
    `(1) IN GENERAL- The term `American jobs offshoring transaction' means any transaction (or series of transactions) in which the taxpayer reduces or eliminates the operation of a trade or business (or line of business) within the United States in connection with the start up or expansion of such trade or business (or such line of business) by the taxpayer outside of the United States.
    `(2) EXCEPTION- A transaction (or series of transactions) shall not be treated as an American jobs offshoring transaction if the taxpayer establishes to the satisfaction of the Secretary that such transaction (or series of transactions) will not result in the loss of employment for employees of the taxpayer within the United States.
    `(d) Aggregation Rule- All employers treated as a single employer under subsection (a) or (b) of section 52 shall be treated as a single taxpayer for purposes of this section, except that section 1563(b)(2)(C) shall be disregarded in applying section 1563 for purposes of section 52.
    `(e) Regulations- The Secretary shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to carry out the purposes of this section, including regulations necessary to prevent the avoidance of such purposes and the application of this section in the case of mergers, acquisitions, and dispositions and in the case of contract employees.'.
    (b) Conforming Amendment- The table of sections for part IX of subchapter B of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new item:
    `Sec. 280I. Expenditures incurred in moving American jobs offshore.'.
    (c) Effective Dates-
    (1) IN GENERAL- The amendments made by this section shall apply to transactions occurring after the date of the enactment of this Act.
    (2) EXCEPTION FOR EXISTING TRANSACTIONS- The amendments made by this section shall not apply to transactions occurring after the date of the enactment of this Act if the taxpayer establishes to the satisfaction of the Secretary of the Treasury or the Secretary's delegate that on or before such date the taxpayer publicly identified the transaction in sufficient detail that the nature and scope of the transaction could be identified."

    Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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