View Poll Results: Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

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    50 52.08%
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Thread: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

  1. #441
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What makes your conspiracy theories laughable to all but the far right, is that the majority of Americans support the main thrust of Occupy Wall Street. Poll after poll we see the majority supports less corporate money for politicians, greater regulation of the banking industry and elimination of the tax cuts for the rich.
    First off, these are not the only issues OWS care about. Over to the issues.

    Who supports corporate money for politicans?

    Regulation is a no brainer, but what kind of regulation?

    And tax increases for the rich is due to the fact most Americans are not rich. It is easy to say, let's someone else do it. But that kind of tax increase will just be a drop in the sea, so after the rich tax increase. They will have to increase the taxes again, and that will have to be done to everyone.

    If this happens tax increases have now been raised twice for rich Americans federally, but don't forget state taxes and the tax increase from the health care legislation. Many of the rich people will invest abroad or not invest at all, because why invest when the government takes most of your income.
    Last edited by Camlon; 12-20-11 at 01:17 AM.

  2. #442
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    First off, these are not the only issues OWS care about. Over to the issues.

    Who supports corporate money for politicans?
    The same ones opposed to campaign finance reform and the removal of corporate personhood - the GOP.

    Regulation is a no brainer, but what kind of regulation?
    HR 1489 to once again establish a firewall between investment banks and commercial banks that prevented banks too big to fail for a half century until the Glass-Steagall bill was repealed - HR 1489 also opposed by the GOP.

    And tax increases for the rich is due to the fact most Americans are not rich. It is easy to say, let's someone else do it. But that kind of tax increase will just be a drop in the sea, so after the rich tax increase. They will have to increase the taxes again, and that will have to be done to everyone.
    Taxes for the rich were decreased by popular vote when the people once believed in supply side economics. Now, after 30 year record of failure, people see that was BS! Yet, the GOP still promotes that as their only solution.

    If this happens tax increases have now been raised twice for rich Americans federally, but don't forget state taxes and the tax increase from the health care legislation. Many of the rich people will invest abroad or not invest at all, because why invest when the government takes most of your income.
    Thanks to Bush tax cuts, we still provide tax breaks to companies to outsource US jobs. The Democrats have written a bill to end the tax cuts for outsourcing jobs. Guess who is opposing it? You got it, the GOP!
    Last edited by Catawba; 12-20-11 at 01:28 AM.
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  3. #443
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The same ones opposed to campaign finance reform and the removal of corporate personhood - the GOP.
    To oppose corporate personhood is just childish. Doesn't corporations have rights and responsibilities. That is corporate personhood, it does not mean they are the same as people's rights.

    Neither party has reduced corporate money for politicans. Not even the fformer messiah Obama. Just because the GOP has been corrupted doesn't mean conservatives like the corruption.

    HR 1489 to once again establish a firewall between investment banks and commercial banks that prevented banks too big to fail for a half century until the Glass-Steagall bill was repealed - HR 1489 also opposed by the GOP.
    This has nothing to do with too big too fail.

    But as I said, there are disagreements on what kind of regulation is needed. I do not know the details of this bill, and can't say if it is good or bad.



    Taxes for the rich were decreased by popular vote when the people once believed in supply side economics. Now, after 30 year record of failure, people see that was BS! Yet, the GOP still promotes that as their only solution.
    Incorrect, they are demanding no tax increases at all, which includes the rich. And do you honestly believe the tax increase on the rich will make any difference what so ever. When Reagan deacresed taxes on the rich from 50% to 28%. Did the poor suddenly become poorer. Did the revenue drop? Did the wages of the poor drop?

    Low tax rates on rich people is not Americas problem. Problem is runaway costs, a declining work ethic and cyclic poverty. Costs for health care, higher education and property in many areas have dramatically increased the last 30 years. That is what people are really complaining about. To increase taxes on the rich will solve nothing.

    Thanks to Bush tax cuts, we still provide tax breaks to companies to outsource US jobs. The Democrats have written a bill to end the tax cuts for outsourcing jobs. Guess who is opposing it? You got it, the GOP!
    First off, every company gets tax deductions. And Obama is not in favor of reversing Bush Tax cuts. If he were, I think he would be doing his job.

    End tax deductions to corporations who outsource. Sounds nice, but have you thought about the unintended consequences? For instance that companies will rather move their whole business abroad. Or choose to invest abroad, because many companies need or may need in the future to outsource some services that are too expensive to do in America.

    This is the problem with the left in America. They don't think about their policies. Everything that sounds good, is good.
    Last edited by Camlon; 12-20-11 at 02:05 AM.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I think your just very very scared of something when there is nothing to be scared of.
    Scared??? Of what?

    Scared of a bunch of useless idiots, camping in the parks...who can't even get the Police to crack their skulls a bit?

    No, Sir...I am not scared of the useful idiots. I AM wary of those calling their shots, though. They are the ones who want to end our capitalists system.
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  5. #445
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What makes your conspiracy theories laughable to all but the far right, is that the majority of Americans support the main thrust of Occupy Wall Street. Poll after poll we see the majority supports less corporate money for politicians, greater regulation of the banking industry and elimination of the tax cuts for the rich.
    I don't blame you for your opinion.

    As a useful idiot, you don't even know you are being manipulated...or by whom.

    Be that as it may, though, what kind of support do y'all think you have from the 99% whom you claim to represent?

    I suspect that support is next to nothing.
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't blame you for your opinion.

    As a useful idiot, you don't even know you are being manipulated...or by whom.

    Be that as it may, though, what kind of support do y'all think you have from the 99% whom you claim to represent?

    I suspect that support is next to nothing.
    Aside from calling another poster an idiot I agree, that support is more important then claiming that you are representing people. The KKK and other racists groups claim to be representing white people, which means nothing other than anger against those white supremacy groups for being so arrogant in assuming that they can talk for all white people. OWS is the same they do not represent the 99%, they only claim to. If they have no support from the 99% they dont speak for them.

    But lets look at reality for a second. Asserting that the 1% vs the 99% is only going to promote conflict. It is obvious propaganda to promote the tired Leftist agenda that pits the workers against the wealthy. Maybe some of you posters can lie to yourselves or us and pretend that there is no obvious connection between Leftist slogans like "power to the people!" and "We are the 99%!" but I cannot ignore something so damn obvious. And it is an insult to my intelligence that people try to pass that line of BS as if I would not notice.

    All I have to do to prove the point that OWS is an Leftist movement hell bent on destroying America and imposing Leftist rule, is to look at the sites that are all abuzz talking about OWS. Take a look at the normal Progressive sites. they are full of many more posters than the few here trying to claim that OWS is not Leftist in nature or anti-Capitalist. Look at all of the signs that were in the protests. There is no conspiracy theory when its all out there in the open like it is in the occupy movement. Lying and trying to claim that OWS is just an movement by normal Americans that are fed up with Wall Streets corruption of the Government is a bit over the top. It might work on the under educated first time voters that thought Obama was going to save the world, but the rest of us know better.

    And thats where OWS goes wrong they have not made any effort to include the Right in their little movement. In fact they aim just about all of their rhetoric at the Right. SO much in fact that me an Independent that is an Atheist and opposed myself against a lot of Rightwing bull, gets accused of being a Rightwinger just because I am opposed to OWS for being an Leftist attempt to cause an uprising. Obviously these people are subscribing to the mentality of 'either you are with us or against us'.

    In the end OWS represents conflict, and that is all they will ever gain. No one will see OWS as the proper direction that this country should be going, well unless you believe in Anarchy or Communism. OWS is not listening to the so called 99%, instead they are trying to tell the 99% to hate the 1%, when in reality any movement by and for the people should represent the 100% and no less. Equality takes in account 100% of the population, not some percentage of the population. OWS is Americas enemy if our goal as an nation is equality, liberty and justice for all..
    Last edited by FreedomFromAll; 12-20-11 at 02:36 PM.

  7. #447
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Aside from calling another poster an idiot I agree, that support is more important then claiming that you are representing people. The KKK and other racists groups claim to be representing white people, which means nothing other than anger against those white supremacy groups for being so arrogant in assuming that they can talk for all white people. OWS is the same they do not represent the 99%, they only claim to. If they have no support from the 99% they dont speak for them.

    But lets look at reality for a second. Asserting that the 1% vs the 99% is only going to promote conflict. It is obvious propaganda to promote the tired Leftist agenda that pits the workers against the wealthy. Maybe some of you posters can lie to yourselves or us and pretend that there is no obvious connection between Leftist slogans like "power to the people!" and "We are the 99%!" but I cannot ignore something so damn obvious. And it is an insult to my intelligence that people try to pass that line of BS as if I would not notice.

    All I have to do to prove the point that OWS is an Leftist movement hell bent on destroying America and imposing Leftist rule, is to look at the sites that are all abuzz talking about OWS. Take a look at the normal Progressive sites. they are full of many more posters than the few here trying to claim that OWS is not Leftist in nature or anti-Capitalist. Look at all of the signs that were in the protests. There is no conspiracy theory when its all out there in the open like it is in the occupy movement. Lying and trying to claim that OWS is just an movement by normal Americans that are fed up with Wall Streets corruption of the Government is a bit over the top. It might work on the under educated first time voters that thought Obama was going to save the world, but the rest of us know better.

    And thats where OWS goes wrong they have not made any effort to include the Right in their little movement. In fact they aim just about all of their rhetoric at the Right. SO much in fact that me an Independent that is an Atheist and opposed myself against a lot of Rightwing bull, gets accused of being a Rightwinger just because I am opposed to OWS for being an Leftist attempt to cause an uprising. Obviously these people are subscribing to the mentality of 'either you are with us or against us'.

    In the end OWS represents conflict, and that is all they will ever gain. No one will see OWS as the proper direction that this country should be going, well unless you believe in Anarchy or Communism. OWS is not listening to the so called 99%, instead they are trying to tell the 99% to hate the 1%, when in reality any movement by and for the people should represent the 100% and no less. Equality takes in account 100% of the population, not some percentage of the population. OWS is Americas enemy if our goal as an nation is equality, liberty and justice for all..
    I didn't call that member an idiot...I called him a useful idiot.

    To understand the distinction, do a Google search of useful idiot...read the Wiki.
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    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  8. #448
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I didn't call that member an idiot...I called him a useful idiot.

    To understand the distinction, do a Google search of useful idiot...read the Wiki.
    I admit that I used you so that I could post the definition of useful idiot, although I guessed that you would post it. lol

    In political jargon, useful idiot is a pejorative term used to describe people perceived as propagandists for a cause whose goals they do not understand, who are used cynically by the leaders of the cause.
    The term was originally used to describe Soviet sympathizers in Western countries. The implication is that although the people in question naïvely thought of themselves as an ally of the Soviet Union, they were actually held in contempt and were being cynically used.
    The use of the term in political discourse has since been extended to other propagandists, especially those who are seen to unwittingly support a malignant cause which they naively believe to be a force for good.
    Skinheads are useful idiots as well. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that if Nazism was imposed skinheads would be the first to go to the gas chamber.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I admit that I used you so that I could post the definition of useful idiot, although I guessed that you would post it. lol



    Skinheads are useful idiots as well. They seem to be oblivious to the fact that if Nazism was imposed skinheads would be the first to go to the gas chamber.
    Yes, of course. You can see the skinheads by the score on these threads standing in lines to go to gas chambers. An excellent point!

  10. #450
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Scared??? Of what?

    Scared of a bunch of useless idiots, camping in the parks...who can't even get the Police to crack their skulls a bit?

    No, Sir...I am not scared of the useful idiots. I AM wary of those calling their shots, though. They are the ones who want to end our capitalists system.
    If they are "useless idiots" then why are you going to great lengths to call them out on some ignorant, promoting fear mongering?


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