View Poll Results: Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

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    50 52.08%
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    41 42.71%
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Thread: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

  1. #401
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    They are not against capitalism. Their main issue is coporate greed and the income disparity. They want capitalist reforms.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    I am talking about right now. Very few on the left want to reverse all of Bush tax cuts, which will be needed to bring finances in order.
    Not true, and we need to do more that merely reverse the bush* tax cuts before we get our fiscal house in order



    The numbers I showed you were revenue as a percentage of GDP. That is not affected by more people, or more efficient economy. Revenue has increased. My point is, if there are no political will for change, then revenue tends to be stable.

    Spending however, can go out of control. People don't want spending to increase, but it increases anyway. There is a difference.
    Tha'ts an truism of no significance. The same is true of spending. With no political will for changes in spending, it stays the same.

    Plenty of peopel DO want spending to increase.


    All my numbers are as a percentage of GDP, hence population increase, and efficiency are irrelevant. Spending has increased as a perdentage of GDP, but few are willing to pay higher taxes. Bringing the burden to the rich will not work.
    SO what? That does nothing to support your claim that it's harder to cut spending than it is to raise revenue. And it certainly does not prove anything about raising tax rates on the biggest earners



    Some people on the right may want that. I am on the right, and I do not want that. I want income inequality to decrease in the US, because as a start it is hurtful to the conservative agenda, and it is not fair.
    You just claimed that raising the share of taxes paid by the top earners will not work. Now you're arguing that you want to do that


    Actually,this is wrong. Your numbers stop at 2007, there was a massive decrease relative to the rest for the top 1% in 2008-2009, so it goes down to 15%.
    Because the bottom 99% lost a lot of income in the recession while the top 1% continued to earn.

    Also, the wealthy pay a much larger portion of the burden.
    Attachment 67119932
    I have no idea what you think that chart proves

    There are heaps of evidence of this. You can take a look at how Mexicans vote, and if they are voting Republican, they are mainly voting due to their values, and not their economic view. Also, remember Mexicans are more right wing than the rest of South America.

    If you take a look at other countries. In Norway, my homeland. The immigrants (mostly asylum seekers) vote overwhelmingly to the left. Same with other countries in Europe. But they come from countries that have barely no welfare state. They didn't choose to have low government spending, they can't afford having high government spending.
    We're talking about the US, and immigrants tend to be fiscally (and morally) conservative.



    The reason they live there, is because their family is there and being rich in the third world is quite nice. You can have servants, nice house and if you moved to a rich country, then you wouldn't have those luxuries. They can easily move to neighboring countries.

    And if this isn't enough for you. Why are there none white people in Zimbabwe, if they are not mobile. Rich people in poor countries are mobile, hence you can't tax them that much.
    Thanks for proving my point, which is that their immigration patterns are more dependent on the host countries immigration policies than where the immigrants choose to live




    Pointless statement, because I didn't talk about a correlation like you did. I just pointed out that some of the worst countries in the world have high governmental spending. I used to illustrate my point that if a poor country tries hard to have high governmental spending, it will probably not be a very nice country. Poor countries can't afford having high governmental spending.
    Pointless statement because ALL of the developed nations have a high level of govt spending when compared to the undeveloped ones. Sure, some undeveloped nations have a lot of govt spending, but when you look at ALL of the nations, developed and undeveloped, it's clear that development requires govt spending.


    Yes they are. Singapore don't even have a minimum wage, while Taiwan and Hong Kong have a minimum wage of 3 and 4 USD respectively.
    You're cherry-picking. Wage laws are not the only form of Big Govt.

    All of them have a governmental spending of 15%. America has a spending of 40%. And taxes are much lower as well. The labour laws are very lax in Singapore and Hong Kong. The reason Singapore haves public housing (sounds worse than it is) is because they have to. Well, you can do like Hong Kong, and Taiwan, but then you end up with expensive bad housing. And some cities in America has rent control, that is way worse. It is burdensome, and decreases housing investment instead of increasing housing investment. So housing prices go up in the long term.
    More cherry picking. $ of govt spending is not the only sign of Big Govt.


    Another point is that Hong Kong and Singapore, are ranked as 1 and 2 respectively in both Heritage and Fraser economic freedom ranking. US is ranked 9 in Heritage and 10 in Fraser. Taiwan is further down, because they love regulations, but not governmental spending.
    Those are nonsense indicators from biased institutions. The fact remains that both have Big Govt policies that would make both those institutions scream if enacted in theUS.

    Regulations are a form of Big Govt.

    Pretty much. You are wrong that high governmental spending is required to be a developed nation. The reason developing nations are lower, is because they can't afford higher taxes.
    Once again, you are conflating "high spending' with "Big Govt"
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #403
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    There is no contridiction. If you actually understood my point, then you would have realized that I used those countries to illustrate that not all poor countries have low governmental spending.

    And that if a poor country tries to have high revenue, without high enough productivity, it will probably end miserably.
    No one said that ALL poor countries have low govt spending
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #404
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    They are not against capitalism. Their main issue is coporate greed and the income disparity. They want capitalist reforms.
    How do you know?
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  5. #405
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    How do you know?
    Read about their demands since the movement began in September.

  6. #406
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    How do you know?
    Why do you think they call it Occupy Wall Street instead of Occupy Main Street?

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Why do you think they call it Occupy Wall Street instead of Occupy Main Street?
    Ever heard of propaganda? That 99% slogan is some of the worst bull**** propaganda I've ever seen, and when you consider that I have photos of North Korean and Soviet propaganda posters, that is huge
    "The misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all" - Joan Robinson
    "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries" - Winston Churchill

  8. #408
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    Read about their demands since the movement began in September.
    Yes...I have. They are all over the place. They don't have any consensus on WHAT they want.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Why do you think they call it Occupy Wall Street instead of Occupy Main Street?
    They could call it "Occupy Anything". They STILL won't know what they want.


    But, hey...that's what y'all get for listening to useful idiots. Idiocy.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  9. #409
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Yes...I have. They are all over the place. They don't have any consensus on WHAT they want.



    They could call it "Occupy Anything". They STILL won't know what they want.


    But, hey...that's what y'all get for listening to useful idiots. Idiocy.
    Sounds a lot like the teabaggers
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  10. #410
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    ...But, hey...that's what y'all get for listening to useful idiots. Idiocy.
    I don't think you understand the meaning of the term "useful idiot".

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