View Poll Results: Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

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Thread: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

  1. #321
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    The movements we see today ISN'T about the system of Capitalism. It's about the abuses of capitalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Hugh Smith
    If we can finally be truthful with ourselves as a nation, then we must admit that our financial system is fundamentally based on lies, fraud, embezzlement, misinformation, perverse filters and incentives, shadow systems that mock transparency and regulation, class privilege and the systemic flouting of the rule of law.

    This is the truth that hurts because it reveals the financial system as one stupendous exploitative fraud; but it also reveals the complicity and irrelevance of our judicial system and the complete capture of the legislative and Executive processes of governance.

    There is a system of government in which rule of law is merely a propaganda screen, where financial and political Elites run the show and escape the consequences of their actions: it's called tyranny. The truth is that we live in a financial tyranny
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    All those countries dont run huge deficits that we do and all we are doing is returning to clinton rates. I believe in a progressive tax system and so do most americans wealthy and poor.
    But America already has the most progressive tax system in the western world. You want to make it even more progressive. The countries with welfare states, which I presume you support, have high taxes on everyone. Not just the rich.

    And yes many of these countries do run high budget deficits.

    And returning to Clinton tax rates would mean that the tax rates for the poor would also increase. Why shouldn't we increase taxes on everyone. Why should the rich pay for everything? Or, why would you think the rich would pay for everything. If taxes become to burdensome, they will just move their money and capital abroad.

  3. #323
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    But America already has the most progressive tax system in the western world. You want to make it even more progressive. The countries with welfare states, which I presume you support, have high taxes on everyone. Not just the rich.

    And yes many of these countries do run high budget deficits.

    And returning to Clinton tax rates would mean that the tax rates for the poor would also increase. Why shouldn't we increase taxes on everyone. Why should the rich pay for everything? Or, why would you think the rich would pay for everything. If taxes become to burdensome, they will just move their money and capital abroad.

    Because its the fiscally responsible thing to do. The middle class folks already see their benefits and entitlements being cut. Its time for the wealthy to give up their tax breaks too.
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Because its the fiscally responsible thing to do. The middle class folks already see their benefits and entitlements being cut. Its time for the wealthy to give up their tax breaks too.
    Why is it the fiscally responsible thing to do? Taxing the rich even more, will just make them invest even less in the US. Taxes for the rich in the US, is just as high as the rest of the word, in fact it is higher than many countries. I hope you realize how much they are already paying.

    For me your policy sound extremely fiscally irresponsible, because there is no way you will be able to cover the deficit by only increasing the taxes on the rich, and it will damage the economy, because they are going to invest elsewhere.

    For me it sounds like you support feel good politics. Feel good policies were one of the main causes for what created this mess in the first place. Such as making a national policy that everyone can get a house, that they did everything to stop the crisis in 2001 so they inflated the bouble, and the budget deficit.

    You still haven't responded to the simple question. What makes you think America is so different from Europe, so that America can pursue different policies, but get similar outcomes? In Europe, the taxes are high for everyone, and that is why they can afford a welfare state. America will not afford a welfare state by just taxing the rich.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    I would approve of repealing tax breaks for the rich if they were moderate and used exclusively for paying off the deficit and then only if we have a fiscally responsible government (Nobama).

  6. #326
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Because its the fiscally responsible thing to do. The middle class folks already see their benefits and entitlements being cut. Its time for the wealthy to give up their tax breaks too.
    How is it fiscally responsible to think that the proposed tax increases on the wealthy which increases revenues $80-$100B annually will address an approximate $1T annual deficit?

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    How is it fiscally responsible to think that the proposed tax increases on the wealthy which increases revenues $80-$100B annually will address an approximate $1T annual deficit?
    I imagine it'd be better than doing nothing.

  8. #328
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    "The percentage increase in after-tax income tilts greatly in favor of those making over $1 million, for one, especially when compared to Americans making between $40,000-$50,000."
    The issue with this position and the supporting data is that amount of taxes paid by those making $40-50k was so little that a decrease in their marginal tax rate was going to make a nominal increase in their after-tax income. Conversely the amount of tax revenue generated by those whose income was over $1m was sufficient enough that their marginal tax rate reduction amounted to a much greater number/percentage.

  9. #329
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I imagine it'd be better than doing nothing.
    Maybe so, maybe not. If the wealthy decide to retract from the US market and invest overseas the reduction in available capital AND taxable income would hurt would it not?

  10. #330
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Why is it the fiscally responsible thing to do? Taxing the rich even more, will just make them invest even less in the US. Taxes for the rich in the US, is just as high as the rest of the word, in fact it is higher than many countries. I hope you realize how much they are already paying.

    For me your policy sound extremely fiscally irresponsible, because there is no way you will be able to cover the deficit by only increasing the taxes on the rich, and it will damage the economy, because they are going to invest elsewhere.

    For me it sounds like you support feel good politics. Feel good policies were one of the main causes for what created this mess in the first place. Such as making a national policy that everyone can get a house, that they did everything to stop the crisis in 2001 so they inflated the bouble, and the budget deficit.

    You still haven't responded to the simple question. What makes you think America is so different from Europe, so that America can pursue different policies, but get similar outcomes? In Europe, the taxes are high for everyone, and that is why they can afford a welfare state. America will not afford a welfare state by just taxing the rich.
    Its a fallacy to compare ourselves to europe. Our GDP is roughly equivalent to the whole continent and we have 300 million people. As for rich not wanting to invest, that has been repeatedly proven to be false by liberal and conservative economists. We had some of our most prosperous times during the clinton years and even bushs own treasury secretary called tax cuts a mistake. he was forced to resign for not agreeing with it.
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