View Poll Results: Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

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  • Yes

    50 52.08%
  • No

    41 42.71%
  • I don't know

    5 5.21%
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Thread: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Personally, I believe most OWSers would be MORE than satisfied if we simply brought back Glass-Steagall, had more tax-brackets for the wealthy, millionaires, 7 billioniaires, had more regulations on banks & the mortgage industry, had a national health care system, had govt. funded college education to public colleges, had publicly financed elections and stripped corporations of personhood rights.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    my guess is that they're not against the ladder. they're against removing rungs from it, though.
    Only the government can remove the rungs. Without government support via more regulations, private companies can't effect how a peson moves up the ladder of success.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Personally, I believe most OWSers would be MORE than satisfied if we simply brought back Glass-Steagall, had more tax-brackets for the wealthy, millionaires, 7 billioniaires, had more regulations on banks & the mortgage industry, had a national health care system, had govt. funded college education to public colleges, had publicly financed elections and stripped corporations of personhood rights.
    They'll never be satisfied, until all American corporations have been nationalized.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    They'll never be satisfied, until all American corporations have been nationalized.
    um, that is your very biased & ignorant opinion.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    [QUOTE=Aderleth;1060006327]OWS is a pretty diverse group of people. Some of the die-hards are, in fact, anti-capitalism. Quite a few OWS protestors have different (and less blatantly impossible) goals (e.g. fixing loopholes in corporate taxation, better regulation of the market/banking/etc).[/QUOTE
    Rules and regluations.... we need a huge improvement here...a shame the conservatives are so against this....IMO, they are also against the American people....the middle class, but not the 1%, the super wealthy.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Wake when are you going to learn you cannot generalize a whole movement?
    Remember when people generalized the whole Tea Party as racist rednecks?
    You cannot generalize a movement.

    I would say (from being at occupy KC and occupy Manhattan) that the majority are social democrats. They just want a more fair system of capitalism. More regulations. They also want to get corporate money out of politics. The movement is mostly progressives. There are however a good amount of socialists. There are a few communists, and anarchists also however in the group.

    So please learn you cannot generalize a whole group like the corporate ran media does.


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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Wake when are you going to learn you cannot generalize a whole movement?
    Remember when people generalized the whole Tea Party as racist rednecks?
    You cannot generalize a movement.

    I would say (from being at occupy KC and occupy Manhattan) that the majority are social democrats. They just want a more fair system of capitalism. More regulations. They also want to get corporate money out of politics. The movement is mostly progressives. There are however a good amount of socialists. There are a few communists, and anarchists also however in the group.....

    thank you. you said it all.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Wake when are you going to learn you cannot generalize a whole movement?
    Remember when people generalized the whole Tea Party as racist rednecks?
    You cannot generalize a movement.

    I would say (from being at occupy KC and occupy Manhattan) that the majority are social democrats. They just want a more fair system of capitalism. More regulations. They also want to get corporate money out of politics. The movement is mostly progressives. There are however a good amount of socialists. There are a few communists, and anarchists also however in the group.

    So please learn you cannot generalize a whole group like the corporate ran media does.
    Already have, AEB the other thread.

    However, that's not the point. The question was whether or not the OWS was against capitalism in their precepts, and it would seem that some are and some aren't.
    Last edited by Wake; 12-07-11 at 02:17 PM.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Already have, AEB the other thread.

    However, that's not the point. The question was whether or not the OWS was against capitalism in their precepts, and it would seem that some are and some aren't.
    Its very simple: Occupy Wall Street has no official stance against Capitalism.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Does the OWS movement have an official spokesman ?
    Do they have any manifesto ?
    At least, Adolf Hitler was kind enough to write a book....had this only been read by those in power...
    These are things I do not know.
    I do know that we have many problems, and that these have been festering for a long time.
    I ,for one, think that a man should work for a living - today we do have some who actually disagree - showing up, then doing nothing of value is good enough for them....
    .
    Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street
    We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

    They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
    They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
    They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
    They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
    They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
    They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
    They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
    They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
    They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
    They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
    They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
    They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
    They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
    They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
    They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
    They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
    They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
    They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
    They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
    They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
    They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
    They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
    They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
    To the people of the world,

    We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
    Principles of Solidarity | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street

    Statement of Autonomy | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street
    We provide a forum for peaceful assembly of individuals to engage in participatory as opposed to partisan debate and democracy. We welcome dissent.

    Any statement or declaration not released through the General Assembly and made public online at NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street should be considered independent of Occupy Wall Street. [.....] Any organization is welcome to support us with the knowledge that doing so will mean questioning your own institutional frameworks of work and hierarchy and integrating our principles into your modes of action.

    SPEAK WITH US, NOT FOR US.

    Occupy Wall Street values collective resources, dignity, integrity and autonomy above money. We have not made endorsements. All donations are accepted anonymously and are transparently allocated via consensus by the General Assembly or the Operational Spokes Council.

    We acknowledge the existence of professional activists who work to make our world a better place. If you are representing, or being compensated by an independent source while participating in our process, please disclose your affiliation at the outset. Those seeking to capitalize on this movement or undermine it by appropriating its message or symbols are not a part of Occupy Wall Street.

    We stand in solidarity. We are Occupy Wall Street.
    General Assembly Guide | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street

    Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants.

    This #ows movement empowers real people to create real change from the bottom up. We want to see a general assembly in every backyard, on every street corner because we don't need Wall Street and we don't need politicians to build a better society.

    the only solution is WorldRevolution
    Click here for NYCGA committee meeting times.

    [...] The movement is inspired by popular uprisings in Egypt and Tunisia, and aims to fight back against the richest 1% of people that are writing the rules of an unfair global economy that is foreclosing on our future.
    Occupy Wall Street | NYC Protest for World Revolution
    The NYCGA assumes the roll as the leader of the occupy movement. They assert that they call shots and no one else can. The NYCGA are Anarchists and are the core of the movement and and they are Anti-Capitalists. The people in the movement that are not Anti-Capitalists are not recognized by the leading group that started OWS. REad at the following link how and who started OWS. David Graeber: On Playing By The Rules
    This is where I must admit my own position is particularly confusing. On the one hand, this is exactly the kind of attitude I have been arguing for for years. I like to describe myself precisely as a “small-a anarchist.” That is, I believe in anarchist principles—mutual aid, direct action, the idea building the new, free society in the shell of the old—but I’ve never felt a need to declare allegiance to any particular anarchist school (Syndicalists, Platformists, etc). Above all, I am happy to work with anyone, whatever they call themselves, willing to work on anarchist principles—which in America today, has largely come to mean, a refusal to work with or through the government or other institutions which ultimately rely on the threat of force, and a dedication to horizontal democracy, to treating each other as we believe free men and women in a genuinely free society would treat each other. Even the commitment to direct action, so often confused with breaking windows or the like, really refers to the refusal of any politics of protest, that merely appeals to the authorities to behave differently, and the determination instead to act for oneself, and to do what one thinks is right, regardless of law and authority. Gandhi’s salt march, for example, is a classic example of direct action. So was squatting Zuccotti Park. It’s a public space; we were the public; the public shouldn’t have to ask permission to engage in peaceful political assembly in its own park; so we didn’t. By doing so we not only acted in the way we felt was right, we aimed to set an example to others: to begin to reclaim communal resources that have been appropriated for purposes of private profit to once again serve for communal use—as in a truly free society, they would be—and to set an example of what genuine communal use might actually be like. For those who desire to create a society based on the principle of human freedom, direct action is simply the defiant insistence on acting as if one is already free.

    Small-a anarchists such as myself were at the core of the anti-nuclear movement in the ‘70s and the global justice movement between 1998-2001, and over the years, we have put much of our creative energy into developing forms of egalitarian political process that actually work. I should emphasize that this is not just an anarchist project. Actually, the development of consensus process, which is probably the movement’s greatest accomplishment, emerges just as much from the tradition of radical feminism, and draws on spiritual traditions from Native American to Quakerism. This is where the whole exotic language of the movement comes from: facilitation, “the people’s microphone,” spokescouncils, blocks; though in the case of Occupy Wall Street, augmented and transformed by the experience of General Assembly movements across the Mediterranean.[....] Say what you will about Americans, and one can say many things, this is a country of deeply democratic sensibilities. The idea that we are, or are supposed to be, a democratic society is at the very core of what makes us proud to be Americans. If Occupy Wall Street has spread to every city in America, it’s because our financial overlords have brought us to such a pass that anarchists, pagan priestesses, and tree-sitters are about the only Americans left still holding out for the idea that a genuinely democratic society might be possible.
    OWS engages in deception to fool the masses. The core speaks of direct democracy and Anarchist principles while people not in the core try to assert that OWS is not Anti-Capitalist. The NYCGA already gave the answer: "Those seeking to capitalize on this movement or undermine it by appropriating its message or symbols are not a part of Occupy Wall Street." The Pro-Capitalists are not part of OWS.

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