View Poll Results: Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

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  • Yes

    50 52.08%
  • No

    41 42.71%
  • I don't know

    5 5.21%
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Thread: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

  1. #231
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Unemployed is being without a paid job but still available to work. Retired means having left ones job and casing to be available to work. Also, in regards to the different status's, I again state...
    Wrong. Unemployed means "not employed"

    What you describe is the qualifications to receive UI benefits.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  2. #232
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Except that you did. This is you in post 141:



    And by studiously ignoring their statements and actions, you've somehow managed to convince yourself, according to post 190, that...



    So, in a nutshell, you don't care about their actions or statements, but somehow know both that their actions and statements are useless, and also simultaneously "directed" by an organization that by all accounts has had very little to do with OWS almost since it's inception.

    Tell you what, why don't you make some effort to compare the actions and statements of OWS with what you believe to be the goals of Adbusters and see how much they overlap. You'll find, if you do that, that they don't overlap much at all.
    I have never ignored the statements and actions of the useful idiots...I DO contend that their statements and actions are useless, disruptive and, in the end, counter to any hope they have of being taken seriously...which is why I DON'T take them seriously.

    Now. I asked you in another post, and I'll ask you again: Do you have any information...with links, please...that prove your contention that Adbusters has little to do with OWS?

    I have posted links that show they do.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  3. #233
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I have never ignored the statements and actions of the useful idiots...I DO contend that their statements and actions are useless, disruptive and, in the end, counter to any hope they have of being taken seriously...which is why I DON'T take them seriously.

    Now. I asked you in another post, and I'll ask you again: Do you have any information...with links, please...that prove your contention that Adbusters has little to do with OWS?

    I have posted links that show they do.
    You've got it ass-backwards. It's not his burden to prove a negative. You made the claim; you just haven't proven it.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #234
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Do you have any information...with links, please...that can substantiate the highlighted statement?
    1) Most of my info from OWS comes from actually talking to people involved, rather than the internet. I live in San Francisco, which means that I'm very close (geographically) to Oakland. I personally know several people who have joined in Occupy Oakland. Three examples - an attorney, a bartender, some dude I met at a bar a couple of weeks ago who is a close friend of the military veteran who was (and possibly still is) in critical condition due to being hit in the head by a tear gas canister. None of those people are anti-capitalism. Only one of the three (the lawyer) even knew what Adbusters is. None of the people they met who were involved gave a **** about Adbusters. Just for example, of course.

    2) You could infer the same thing I have by doing the same thing (actually listening to what they have to say for themselves and seeing if their statements and concerns match up with Adbusters - they don't).

    3) Since you asked...

    Kalle Lasn and Micah White, the Creators of Occupy Wall Street : The New Yorker
    -This article focuses on the origins and development of the democratic processes of OWS. You'll notice that they largely stop talking about Adbusters pretty early on.

    Ray Kachel’s Journey from Seattle to Zuccotti Park : The New Yorker
    -This article focuses on some of the people involved with OWS, and especially on an out-of-work computer programmer from Seattle who moved into Zuccotti park on a whim. You'll notice that the goals of most (possibly all) of the people the article talks about have nothing to do with Adbusters.

    -You could read their forums, here,
    Public Forum | OccupyWallSt.org
    and discover that there are a wide variety of viewpoints presented

    Then there's stuff like this -

    Occupy Marines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Surely you wouldn't accuse off-duty marines to be puppets of Adbusters?

    I'm ignoring NYTimes stuff, and Huffpost, and other sources I'm fairly sure you'd reject out of hand. But do your own research. If you're honest about it, you'll find that I'm right. Better yet, talk to them yourself. They're all over the damn place these days:

    List of Occupy movement protest locations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  5. #235
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Sure I did. You asked if workers took a risk, and I answered by pointing out that workers risk their health and their lives. It's not my fault if you thought your question had only one right answer; it's the result of your limited pov, which leaves one unable to see the risks that workers take in order to earn a living.

    Now answer my question - What portion of the 1% died while working construction?
    No, I did not. I asked who is taking the risk.

    Then i specified that I was talking about the investment. And I won't respond before you start acting more mature and respond to my questions in a proper way. There are no reason to talk to you, if you have no interest in listening to other people.

  6. #236
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Wrong. Unemployed means "not employed"

    What you describe is the qualifications to receive UI benefits.
    When people talk about unemployment today, then they are talking about the ones who are actively looking for a job, but can't find one. All definitions say the same.

    So, live with it and accept the proper definitions.

  7. #237
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You've got it ass-backwards. It's not his burden to prove a negative. You made the claim; you just haven't proven it.
    I disagree.

    These are his words:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Which might support your position if Adbusters had any real influence with OWS, which they very emphatically do not.
    Aderleth makes a very direct statement that Adbusters do not have any real influence with OWS. I asked him to prove this statement.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  8. #238
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    No, I did not. I asked who is taking the risk.

    And I answered that the workers are taking a risk with their health and their life. I answered the question you asked

    Then i specified that I was talking about the investment. And I won't respond before you start acting more mature and respond to my questions in a proper way. There are no reason to talk to you, if you have no interest in listening to other people.
    It's not my fault you were careless in wording your question. It's your fault. I answered the question you asked. If you think I'm going to answer question after question until you get it right (if ever) while you ignore my questions, you're being foolish. Answer my first question, and I'll answer your second:

    What portion of the 1% died while working construction?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #239
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I have never ignored the statements and actions of the useful idiots...I DO contend that their statements and actions are useless, disruptive and, in the end, counter to any hope they have of being taken seriously...which is why I DON'T take them seriously.

    Now. I asked you in another post, and I'll ask you again: Do you have any information...with links, please...that prove your contention that Adbusters has little to do with OWS?

    I have posted links that show they do.
    No you haven't. You've posted links showing that Adbusters was involved with catalyzing the movement, which is also mentioned, in greater detail, in the first article I linked in my last post. If you read that article, you'll notice that practically the very first thing that happened at the initial gathering is that there was friction between the die hard anarchist Adbuster fans, and the other group involved. The other thing you'll notice is that basically none of the people who are influential with the NY General Assembly have anything to do with Adbusters.

    So, you've really got to ask yourself, if this is an Adbusters movement, why do they have no control over what is happening, and why does OWS not actually support their politics, in general (which you'd have noticed by now, if you weren't dead set on dismissing the entire movement as useful idiots)?

  10. #240
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Aderleth makes a very direct statement that Adbusters do not have any real influence with OWS. I asked him to prove this statement.
    Which I did on this very page.

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