View Poll Results: Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

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  • Yes

    50 52.08%
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    41 42.71%
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    5 5.21%
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Thread: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

  1. #171
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    As I said before...who cares about the useful idiots? I don't.
    I've noticed. You probably should, though, if you had any interest at all in honestly addressing this issue rather than concocting bull**** conspiracy theories.

  2. #172
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I've noticed. You probably should, though, if you had any interest at all in honestly addressing this issue rather than concocting bull**** conspiracy theories.
    Speaking of conspiracy theories, those occupiers really like their own conspiracy theories.

  3. #173
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Speaking of conspiracy theories, those occupiers really like their own conspiracy theories.
    This is you from two pages back:

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I think the plan all along has been to destabilize the economy
    Now, I know that you won't understand why I'm bringing this up, but pretty much anyone else reading this post will.

  4. #174
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Personally, I believe most OWSers would be MORE than satisfied if we simply brought back Glass-Steagall, had more tax-brackets for the wealthy, millionaires, 7 billioniaires, had more regulations on banks & the mortgage industry, had a national health care system, had govt. funded college education to public colleges, had publicly financed elections and stripped corporations of personhood rights.
    No, they won't. Because neither will give them high paying jobs.

    This movement is not about capitalism, it is about greed. Which is people who are mad because they think they are entitled to a high standard of living.

  5. #175
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    Don't really care what the "majority of the US" thinks in regards to taxes and especially that a "majority" of those who aren't wealthy think that its honkey dorey to raise rates on everyone else for more free stuff for themselves. I'm okay once the economy picks up to go back to the Clinton rates....ALL the Clinton rates. I would choose to remain at the current rate rather than go down the ridiculous road of significantly scape goating the "wealthy" to pay for every idiotic entitlement people like you and Thunder seem to want to add to our debt such as free college, free health care, and free elections.

    I would say that the best place to start would be the portion of our spending that takes up 75% of it...namely Entitlement programs (SS, medicare, SCHIP, etc) and the Military. Reform entitlements and tighten things up in the military to bring spending for both down by 1/3rd.
    I have to agree with you to some extent. It seems to me that there is no easy way out of our current economic situation. I think that the idea that taxing the rich alone will solve our problem is wishful thinking (and I do wish it was true). In December 2010 the New York Times reported that

    "extending [the Bush tax cuts] for the next 10 years would add about $3.8 trillion to a growing national debt that is already the largest since World War II. About $700 billion of that reflects the projected costs of tax cuts for those in the top 2 percent of income-earners."

    700 billion is less than 20% of 3.8 trillion. Over ten years, that's an average of 70 billion, which is a drop in the bucket. According to the CBO, our 2011 deficit is 1.3 trillion. Even if we cut our entire military budget for 2011 (700 billion) we would still owe 500 billion. The fact of the matter is that we probably need to raise taxes for everyone AND cut spending significantly. Maybe not now, but eventually.

    ...and in response to other sentiments expressed in this thread: I feel that the narrative that people from OWS are lazy, don't want to work, and are looking for handouts from rich people is largely false. It seems to me that two of the main reforms OWS wants is campaign finance reform and the reinstatement of the Glass-Steagal Act. They also want the people who created, and profited from the financial crisis to be held accountable, and they want other regulations put in place to keep it from happening again. Those are really the main goals it seems to me, and none of those goals can be considered someone asking for handouts.

  6. #176
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    No, they won't. Because neither will give them high paying jobs.

    This movement is not about capitalism, it is about greed. Which is people who are mad because they think they are entitled to a high standard of living.
    You are misinformed. I don't even think 1% of the people who attend OWS meeting share this sentiment.

  7. #177
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    No, they won't. Because neither will give them high paying jobs.

    This movement is not about capitalism, it is about greed. Which is people who are mad because they think they are entitled to a high standard of living.
    Actually, the movement is largely about the pretty obvious failure of the government to properly regulate the financial industry, and the resultant economic crisis. It is about greed, but it's about corporate greed and legislative greed. Most of the people involved with OWS would simply like the opportunity to work hard in order to improve their lot in life. Unfortunately, current economic conditions, combined with three decades of stagnant wages for pretty much the entire country have made that impossible.

  8. #178
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yep, I know of it. Haven't looked extremely closely yet. In a general sense don't have a huge issue if it came back but like I said, I'd need to look more into it.
    I think all of us who were angry about taxpayer money to bail out banks too big too fail could come together to again erect the firewall between commercial banks and investment banks.



    Don't really care what the "majority of the US" thinks in regards to taxes and especially that a "majority" of those who aren't wealthy think that its honkey dorey to raise rates on everyone else for more free stuff for themselves. I'm okay once the economy picks up to go back to the Clinton rates....ALL the Clinton rates. I would choose to remain at the current rate rather than go down the ridiculous road of significantly scape goating the "wealthy" to pay for every idiotic entitlement people like you and Thunder seem to want to add to our debt such as free college, free health care, and free elections.
    I would also agree to returning to the Clinton rates, and by cutting military spending back to what it was under Clinton it should be no problem providing for the critical needs of our own, and reducing the debt over the next 30 years.

    Matter of opinion as to where the "biggest waste is".
    That's the crux of the problem, our representatives are spit on what the main priorities should be for spending. I don't expect it to be resolved until November of next year when the people choose the priorities they think are most important for our country.

    I would say that the best place to start would be the portion of our spending that takes up 75% of it...namely Entitlement programs (SS, medicare, SCHIP, etc) and the Military. Reform entitlements and tighten things up in the military to bring spending for both down by 1/3rd.
    The problem with that from the progressive viewpoint is that SS never added one dime to our debt and has over 2 trillion dollars in surpluses owed to it by the General Fund. That plus raising the FICA cap fixes SS for the long term. And we don't have a Medicare problem. The problem is the most expensive health care system in the world. Moving that problem to the states or individuals does nothing to address the affordability issue for consumers. To address the cost issue we will eventually have to upgrade our health care system to UHC as the rest of the industrialized world has done. Cutting military spending back to levels under Clinton will save us at several hundred billions of dollars a year.
    Last edited by Catawba; 12-13-11 at 02:20 AM.
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  9. #179
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    This is you from two pages back:



    Now, I know that you won't understand why I'm bringing this up, but pretty much anyone else reading this post will.
    You get a brownie button. I am not theorizing. Today's 'Occupy the ports" was designed to disrupt the economy.
    Why Shut Down the West Coast Ports? | West Coast Port Shut Down Why shut down the West Coast Ports?
    The ports play a pivotal role in the flow and growth of capital for the 1% in this country and internationally. For that reason alone it is the ideal place to disrupt their profit machine. The workers on these ports have always understood that; they have consistently staged shutdowns for political reasons, honored community picket lines, and led the labor movement. A general disruption of commerce, in protest of the nationally coordinated attacks on Occupy movements alone is warranted, but additionally, the specifically targeted attacks on workers at these ports by the 1% further necessitate this call to action.
    Some unions did not support todays protest to shut down the ports on the west coast. Some workers were pissed. The disruption of "their profit machine" turned out to affect the 99% as well. The economy cannot be disrupted without affecting other parts. But I am sure that the occupiers knew that. Please dont tell me that they are stupid that they didnt know that.

  10. #180
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Actually, the movement is largely about the pretty obvious failure of the government to properly regulate the financial industry, and the resultant economic crisis. It is about greed, but it's about corporate greed and legislative greed. Most of the people involved with OWS would simply like the opportunity to work hard in order to improve their lot in life. Unfortunately, current economic conditions, combined with three decades of stagnant wages for pretty much the entire country have made that impossible.
    WHy is it that millions of Americans can and do work for a better life yet the occupiers cant seem to figure out how to do it themselves?

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