View Poll Results: Is the OWS Movement against Capitalism?

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  • Yes

    50 52.08%
  • No

    41 42.71%
  • I don't know

    5 5.21%
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Thread: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

  1. #141
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Adbusters floated the idea the NYCGA actually acted on the idea.
    That's why I called the people in the parks useful idiots. I don't give a wit about what they say or do. I look to those behind them...directing them. And those behind them are against capitalism.
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    For a half century it produced the strongest middle class in our history!!!
    It did. So in the 40's through 70's we had universal health care, free college education, and publicly financed elections?

    Becaues it was those things he was responding to stating they are "not that revolutionary" in regards to the current American system. I apparently missed all the free college and health care in my reading of the history books for that period of time. Mind pointing me to where those things happened and how they caused the "strongest middle class in our history"?

  3. #143
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    That's why I called the people in the parks useful idiots. I don't give a wit about what they say or do. I look to those behind them...directing them. And those behind them are against capitalism.
    Source?
    Proof?


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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Read my signature.

    /thread
    Your /thread would work better if Matt didn't make broad generalizations about what "people" want that is clearly documented to be untrue. If he wants to say the movement by and large doesn't want handouts then more power to him...I don't think handouts are the groups primary purpose. But there most assuredly ARE people within the movement who absolutely DO want a handout.

  5. #145
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It did. So in the 40's through 70's we had universal health care, free college education, and publicly financed elections? Becaues it was those things he was responding to stating they are "not that revolutionary" in regards to the current American system. I apparently missed all the free college and health care in my reading of the history books for that period of time. Mind pointing me to where those things happened and how they caused the "strongest middle class in our history"?
    We don't have those things now, so they are not the cause of our current financial problems. What we did have then, that we don't have now, are more progressive tax rates and regulations that prevented commercial banks from combining with investment banks. What is so revolutionary about that???

    UHC, extending public support of education from HS to college, and publicly financed elections, are needed to address today's problems.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We don't have those things now
    Exactly, which is why when he said that all they wanted was "simply...." and he listed off a dozen things including those three I told him those weren't exactly "Simple" demands to want. His response was that they weren't revolutionary...which you responded to with some winding speech about how correct he is because that's what made us great in the 40's through 70's.

    I'm just trying to figure out if you were actually responding to the conversation line that you quoted, or if you just quoted something randomly and went off on a whole different tangent.

    UHC, extending public support of education from HS to college, and publicly financed elections, are needed to address today's problems.
    Three massive changes to how all three things have functioned for decades upon decades in this country. Those aren't "Simply" type of demands. Those are major and significant shifts to how the country operates. You can BELIEVE they're necessary all you want...that doesn't make them any more "simple" to actually occur.

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Exactly, which is why when he said that all they wanted was "simply...." and he listed off a dozen things including those three I told him those weren't exactly "Simple" demands to want. His response was that they weren't revolutionary...which you responded to with some winding speech about how correct he is because that's what made us great in the 40's through 70's.

    I'm just trying to figure out if you were actually responding to the conversation line that you quoted, or if you just quoted something randomly and went off on a whole different tangent.



    Three massive changes to how all three things have functioned for decades upon decades in this country. Those aren't "Simply" type of demands. Those are major and significant shifts to how the country operates. You can BELIEVE they're necessary all you want...that doesn't make them any more "simple" to actually occur.
    To me, the most important things to address first are the restoration of our progressive tax rates (necessary for our consumer based economy), and re-regulating the banks (that put public funds at risk). I would agree the other 3 items you reference are not simple, but inevitably will have to be addressed for a sustainable economy. Glad to see the OWS has focused public debate on these issues.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Public debate on universal health care and publicly financed elections have been going on steadily far, far longer than OWS has existed.

    People aren't really "publicly debating" giving everyone free college education. A few idiots within the movement think they're entitled to it and most everyone else scoffs at their idiocy

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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Public debate on universal health care and publicly financed elections have been going on steadily far, far longer than OWS has existed.

    People aren't really "publicly debating" giving everyone free college education. A few idiots within the movement think they're entitled to it and most everyone else scoffs at their idiocy
    It wasn't front page news until the OWS, which displaced the debate over the deficit. You are right that free college education is not the thrust of the debate, it is the much more important restoration of progressive tax rates and re-regulation of the banks.

    What do you find so revolutionary about restoring some of the progressiveness of our tax rates and re-regulation of the banks?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #150
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    Re: Is the OWS against Capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    That's why I called the people in the parks useful idiots. I don't give a wit about what they say or do. I look to those behind them...directing them. And those behind them are against capitalism.
    Except that the OWS movement isn't being "directed" by anyone at this point. Yes, Adbusters came up with the idea, and catalyzed the movement, but they don't now and never really have had any substantive control over OWS. If you paid any attention to what they said or did, this would probably be obvious to you.

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