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  • I live in a country with UHC and I would never want privatized-only medicine

    12 24.49%
  • I live in a country with UHC and I do want privatized-only medicine

    2 4.08%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I want UHC

    24 48.98%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I would never want UHC

    8 16.33%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I want a public option only

    3 6.12%
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Thread: UHC vs Privatized Care

  1. #71
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes we do this now, and badly. Largely because of the reasons I listed. As long as government only deals with the most needy, without benefit of having healthy people offsetting costs, the system will continue to struggle.
    Healthy people already offset the costs through mandatory taxes that all workers pay.
    Seriously, where have you been?

    SSD taxes are paid by everyone.
    The problem is that the program needs serious reform.
    Healthy people are less of a worry than fixing the disability program for the people who need it most.

    That's the point of social welfare, to help the needy.
    Not to make sure healthy people can get their cold checked out.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #72
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's not the goal though.
    The goal is to make sure that the real "lesser among us" have the ability to be covered for their chronic and expensive conditions.

    I don't see you getting too upset when doctors, nurses, other health care professionals are earning a profit.
    Doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals are actually providing a tangible service. Health insurers are just moving money around and not providing anything of value that couldn't be provided more efficiently by the government.
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  3. #73
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Healthy people already offset the costs through mandatory taxes that all workers pay.
    Seriously, where have you been?

    SSD taxes are paid by everyone.
    The problem is that the program needs serious reform.
    Healthy people are less of a worry than fixing the disability program for the people who need it most.

    That's the point of social welfare, to help the needy.
    Not to make sure healthy people can get their cold checked out.
    I am trying to put you comments in context of health care, which may be my mistake. This would include not only SS, but medicaid and medicare.

    Now, as for what the purpose is, while I'm not sure exactly how you getting a cold check out fits in, good halth requires more than just handling an emergency or serious illness. It is possible to catch something early, to do some preventive efforts, and while such may not be cheaper overall, it is healthier. And makes the nation healthier. Might help in preventing potential outbreaks of contagens in te future as well.

    So I would sugegst there is more than one single purpose to health care reform.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #74
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals are actually providing a tangible service. Health insurers are just moving money around and not providing anything of value that couldn't be provided more efficiently by the government.
    Incorrect.
    They are pooling money and providing a service.

    It seems you checked your otherwise extensive knowledge of economics, at the door.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #75
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I am trying to put you comments in context of health care, which may be my mistake. This would include not only SS, but medicaid and medicare.

    Now, as for what the purpose is, while I'm not sure exactly how you getting a cold check out fits in, good halth requires more than just handling an emergency or serious illness. It is possible to catch something early, to do some preventive efforts, and while such may not be cheaper overall, it is healthier. And makes the nation healthier. Might help in preventing potential outbreaks of contagens in te future as well.

    So I would sugegst there is more than one single purpose to health care reform.
    As has been pointed out ad naseum, preventative medicine is not cheaper en mass.
    Preventative lifestyle choices are cheaper.
    Having government cover everyone for everything will not change this.

    To me it seems, that just from most of these arguments, all the crowing about the sick and poor being left out is not the real intention behind UHC.
    It's that people don't want to pay for their own medical care.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  6. #76
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    As has been pointed out ad naseum, preventative medicine is not cheaper en mass.
    Preventative lifestyle choices are cheaper.
    Having government cover everyone for everything will not change this.

    To me it seems, that just from most of these arguments, all the crowing about the sick and poor being left out is not the real intention behind UHC.
    It's that people don't want to pay for their own medical care.
    You do realize I said it wasn't cheaper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo
    It is possible to catch something early, to do some preventive efforts, and while such may not be cheaper overall, it is healthier.
    No. I think you're not listening well. It is about how to cover the most people in the best manner. This includes cost, but not just cost. Access and health also matter. I do consider it a public health issue. Lack of access is a problem, and whiel some focus on those who abuse ERs, it is also true others never get needed trreatment and suffer. Both are probelms. Both need to be addressed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #77
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I like to see some supporting evidence for that last part.

    Expensive and wasteful can have many reasons, seems to me you're lumping the blame on the lack of government regulation.
    Need proof.
    It's actually a combination of lack of government regulation, and the lack of competition from a universal health care plan of some sort. Those are the two major differences between the US and most other countries. If not these differences, to what do you attribute our grotesquely inefficient health care market?

    Actually all Americans are entitled to, at least emergency care, so we do have universal access.
    That is not universal access. Most services are not provided in an emergency room, and waiting until a health problem becomes severe enough to be an emergency means it will cost many times more to treat.

    We have a type of UHC though.
    Getting treated when you get hit by a bus does not qualify as universal health care. We do not have general purpose universal health care in this country.

    Don't be too confident, we haven't been able to reign in Medicare yet.
    If you are suggesting that we should stop intentionally making Medicare more expensive than it needs to be as a favor to the health care industry, then I agree. But what do you think is so unique to the American political system that makes this task insurmountable, whereas far more dysfunctional polities like Italy and Greece are able to do so?
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  8. #78
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Incorrect.
    They are pooling money and providing a service.

    It seems you checked your otherwise extensive knowledge of economics, at the door.
    The key part of my previous statement:
    Doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals are actually providing a tangible service. Health insurers are just moving money around and not providing anything of value that couldn't be provided more efficiently by the government.

    I will grant you that government bureaucrats probably aren't so great at performing gastric bypass surgery. They are pretty good at collecting and writing checks though. So who better to pool money for the public, than the public itself?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-07-11 at 05:48 PM.
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  9. #79
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You do realize I said it wasn't cheaper?



    No. I think you're not listening well. It is about how to cover the most people in the best manner. This includes cost, but not just cost. Access and health also matter. I do consider it a public health issue. Lack of access is a problem, and whiel some focus on those who abuse ERs, it is also true others never get needed trreatment and suffer. Both are probelms. Both need to be addressed.
    So making everything, even more expensive is better for the country?
    I thought the purpose of a Single payer or UHC was to bring down costs and provide universal access?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #80
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    So making everything, even more expensive is better for the country?
    I thought the purpose of a Single payer or UHC was to bring down costs and provide universal access?
    Didn't say that. Not remotely. A single payer sytem will bring costs down. We have the world as an example. And it will allow greater access than we have, and again, we have the world as an example. We can do it better, learnign form all of them if we have the will. And it will likely be at least two tiered here. But it is all in how it all works together. How well it is designed.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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