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  • I live in a country with UHC and I would never want privatized-only medicine

    12 24.49%
  • I live in a country with UHC and I do want privatized-only medicine

    2 4.08%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I want UHC

    24 48.98%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I would never want UHC

    8 16.33%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I want a public option only

    3 6.12%
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Thread: UHC vs Privatized Care

  1. #41
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    No, they don't. I have a contract with them and they are required to pay claims with in that contract.
    Is your health insurance through your employer? If so, you are still beholden to a corporation in the same sense that you described, it's just not the health insurance company.

    If it's an individual health insurance plan, good luck getting them to pay a major claim. Just because they are required to, doesn't mean that they will do it without putting up a big fight. Fortunately the Affordable Care Act eliminated some of the worst abuses of the health insurance industry (e.g. kicking people off plans once they got sick, denying coverage because they failed to report an old irrelevant preexisting condition, etc). But you are deluding yourself if you think that mere legal obligation will stand in the way of their profits.

    Furthermore, as important as the ACA was, there is still a lot of abuse that remains unregulated in private health insurance plans. For example, it is still legal (at least for a couple more years) for insurers to bury exclusions for specific conditions deep in the fine print, which no one without an actuarial or medical background would know if they need or not.

    The government regulates that. If the government is the one you hold the contract with, who regulates them?
    The people do.
    Furthermore, your argument doesn't make sense. If you trust the government to regulate private insurers effectively, why would you not trust the government to make policies for itself effectively? In this logic, all that private insurance does is add one more layer of bureaucracy.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-06-11 at 08:45 PM.
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  2. #42
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    I want high risk individuals out of private risk pools.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #43
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    No, they don't. I have a contract with them and they are required to pay claims with in that contract. The government regulates that. If the government is the one you hold the contract with, who regulates them?
    I had one experience with two insurance companies (I couldn't avoid dual coverage for a rational reason.) both saying that the other one was primary. So neither one would pay. And the government denied that they had regualitory responsibility. I was on my own with them.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 12-06-11 at 09:26 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    It depends purely on the UHC plan, but I would favor a UHC system over privatized health insurance.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

  5. #45
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    You think you have control over your representative? That's a riot. You have a lot more control over a company trying to do business with you than you do a politician. A business deals with you one on one, a politician blows in the direction of the political winds. If you are up wind of him, you ain't gettin nuttin.
    Yes, the other citizens an I in my district can vote him or her out office and replace with someone we feel represents us better. I have no such control with private companies, or the price they choose to charge me.


    You do realize where all the extra money goes? Approximately $200 a month, or $2400 per yer per person at about $650 billion a year is wasted by having comprehensive medical insurance. If you subtract that from out total cost for health care, you would find we have one of the cheapest systems in the world. We spend $2 trillion a year on health care and we would spend $1.35 if we didn't have comprehensive health insurance. It is a full on waste of money. There is no math in the world that can make comprehensive health insurance better for you. It is like playing roulette. Play long enough and you will lose. It doesn't matter if the government runs it or a private company. You lose.
    I've already lost with the private health care system, it is barely affordable for me and my wife for just catastrophic coverage, and we are middle class. 1/6 of our fellow citizens cannot afford health care and is completely unacceptable for the richest country on the planet. We are the only industrialized country that hasn't upgraded to UHC.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #46
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Universal coverage provides the widest risk pool for the lowest cost.
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  7. #47
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Is your health insurance through your employer? If so, you are still beholden to a corporation in the same sense that you described, it's just not the health insurance company.

    If it's an individual health insurance plan, good luck getting them to pay a major claim. Just because they are required to, doesn't mean that they will do it without putting up a big fight. Fortunately the Affordable Care Act eliminated some of the worst abuses of the health insurance industry (e.g. kicking people off plans once they got sick, denying coverage because they failed to report an old irrelevant preexisting condition, etc). But you are deluding yourself if you think that mere legal obligation will stand in the way of their profits.


    Furthermore, as important as the ACA was, there is still a lot of abuse that remains unregulated in private health insurance plans. For example, it is still legal (at least for a couple more years) for insurers to bury exclusions for specific conditions deep in the fine print, which no one without an actuarial or medical background would know if they need or not.
    All of those examples are abuses that should be adjusted in court. What you are describing is a failing court system...i.e. a failing government.


    The people do.
    LMAO....so you are saying you get everything you want out of government?

    Furthermore, your argument doesn't make sense. If you trust the government to regulate private insurers effectively, why would you not trust the government to make policies for itself effectively? In this logic, all that private insurance does is add one more layer of bureaucracy.
    Are you arguing that the government has done such a fantastic job of regulating that you think they should just take over? Have you seen what happens to people at the VA or on Medicare or SCHIP? Do you honestly want that?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  8. #48
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, the other citizens an I in my district can vote him or her out office and replace with someone we feel represents us better. I have no such control with private companies, or the price they choose to charge me.
    You have a very skewed view of reality. The reality is, I and your other fellow citizens in your district can vote for someone that will royally screw you over and then there is zero you can do about it.




    I've already lost with the private health care system, it is barely affordable for me and my wife for just catastrophic coverage, and we are middle class. 1/6 of our fellow citizens cannot afford health care and is completely unacceptable for the richest country on the planet. We are the only industrialized country that hasn't upgraded to UHC.
    It is actually 1/8. And UHC is a serious downgrade to civil liberties. War worthy downgrade.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  9. #49
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    All of those examples are abuses that should be adjusted in court. What you are describing is a failing court system...i.e. a failing government.
    No, the courts (usually) do their job. They can't do anything about it if the companies are doing something unethical but legal, and they can't do anything about companies that try to nickel and dime their customers through the legal system. Many of these health insurance companies bank on the fact that some of their customers will be too poor/stupid/sick/dead to fight back if they deny a claim...and often they're right.

    LMAO....so you are saying you get everything you want out of government?
    Nope. I said the government is accountable to the people, unlike a private health insurance company.

    Are you arguing that the government has done such a fantastic job of regulating that you think they should just take over?
    It seems that you and I are in agreement on that point, as the gist of what you are saying seems to be that the government is failing at regulating private insurance companies who are prone to abuse. Did I understand you correctly? And if so, then why not just cut out the middleman and do it themselves? It seems like it would be a lot easier to simply provide insurance as a public service, instead of trying to provide regulation of a for-profit industry as a public service. And indeed, the example of every other developed country confirms that this is indeed the case.

    Have you seen what happens to people at the VA or on Medicare or SCHIP? Do you honestly want that?
    Yes?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-06-11 at 10:45 PM.
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  10. #50
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    You have a very skewed view of reality. The reality is, I and your other fellow citizens in your district can vote for someone that will royally screw you over and then there is zero you can do about it.
    You don't get a vote at all in your private company's policy. They do whatever maximizes their profits, rather than whatever maximizes the public interest. The two are not always the same thing.

    It is actually 1/8. And UHC is a serious downgrade to civil liberties. War worthy downgrade.
    Yee-haw.
    Are you coming to bed?
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