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  • I live in a country with UHC and I would never want privatized-only medicine

    12 24.49%
  • I live in a country with UHC and I do want privatized-only medicine

    2 4.08%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I want UHC

    24 48.98%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I would never want UHC

    8 16.33%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I want a public option only

    3 6.12%
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Thread: UHC vs Privatized Care

  1. #31
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If you're thinking that greater overhead costs are something natural to private insurance, you should review the laws passed, specifically the HMO act and the minimum benefit mandates, pushed by the states and the feds.
    I don't think greater overhead costs are something natural to private insurance (although Medicare does do a better job in that respect). But I *do* think that combing the legal text looking for loopholes to take advantage of consumers is something natural to private insurance. And I think that charging more in order to make a profit (which public programs don't need to worry about) is something natural to private insurance. And I think that out-of-control cost spirals are something natural to private insurance. And I think that being accountable to shareholders rather than the public is something natural to private insurance. And I think that having uninsured people is harmful to the economy as a whole.

    Me thinks your beliefs about this are too one sided.
    If my beliefs about this are one-sided, it's because I have the small example of every single other developed country in the world on my side. None of which spend anywhere near as much on health care as the United States does, and most of which get as good or better results.

    Too one-sided? Maybe by American political standards, but I imagine that if you examined the views of everyone in the developed world and the vast array of health care systems that exist within it, you'd find that my views on this issue are a lot closer to the median than yours.

    Also, politicians in America will have a hard time making those cost efficiencies in public medical care programs, actually materialize.
    There are plenty of political systems more dysfunctional than ours, and they all do a better job in terms of health care cost efficiency.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-06-11 at 06:30 PM.
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  2. #32
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't think greater overhead costs are something natural to private insurance (although Medicare does do a better job in that respect). But I *do* think that combing the legal text looking for loopholes to take advantage of consumers is something natural to private insurance. And I think that charging more in order to make a profit (which public programs don't need to worry about) is something natural to private insurance. And I think that out-of-control cost spirals are something natural to private insurance. And I think that having uninsured people is harmful to the economy as a whole.
    If that were the case, then all the other private insurance industries in the world would be "spiraling out of control."
    That isn't the case.

    There is a definite problem with medical insurance and that is too much regulation in terms of expected output.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If my beliefs about this are one-sided, it's because I have the small example of every single other developed country in the world on my side. None of which spend anywhere near as much on health care as the United States does, and most of which get as good or better results.

    Too one-sided? Maybe by American political standards, but I imagine that if you examined the views of everyone in the developed world and the vast array of health care systems that exist, you'd find that my views on this issue are a lot closer to the median than yours.
    That's not true though.
    The Swiss and Singapore are but 2 examples of countries, who are 1st world and do not operate a gov single payer system.
    Singapore has lower costs than any of the nations with a Single payer and the outcomes are better.

    Not at all.
    I think a single payer has it's place, but it's not for all people.
    A single payer should be available where the failures of nature exist, chronically disabled people and those with rare diseases, not the common individual.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There are plenty of political systems more dysfunctional than ours, and they all do a better job in terms of health care cost efficiency.
    Our political system is ostensibly pay to play.
    Those with the most votes and most money will benefit most, from a single payer.
    Example, Medicare.
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  3. #33
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand. If the government controls the money, they control your health. If they control your health, they control your life. Why would you ever want that?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  4. #34
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If that were the case, then all the other private insurance industries in the world would be "spiraling out of control."
    That isn't the case.
    That's because in most other nations, private health insurance companies have to compete with public insurance...and in most countries the private plans are tightly regulated anyway.

    There is a definite problem with medical insurance and that is too much regulation in terms of expected output.
    The US has by far the least regulated health care market in the developed world...and is also by far the most expensive/wasteful.

    That's not true though.
    The Swiss and Singapore are but 2 examples of countries, who are 1st world and do not operate a gov single payer system.
    Singapore has lower costs than any of the nations with a Single payer and the outcomes are better.
    I'm not opposed to a dual-tier health care system. An important distinction though: Switzerland and Singapore have universal health care, whereas the United States does not. Additionally, Singapore tightly controls costs which is why it's able to get such good results (along with a generally healthier lifestyle than Western nations). As for Switzerland...well, it's better than the United States by quite a bit, but you did manage to find the second-most inefficient system in the developed world.

    Not at all.
    I think a single payer has it's place, but it's not for all people.
    A single payer should be available where the failures of nature exist, chronically disabled people and those with rare diseases, not the common individual.
    Whether a health care system is single-payer, dual-tier, or something else is an important distinction, but that distinction pales in comparison to whether or not UHC exists at all.

    Our political system is ostensibly pay to play.
    Those with the most votes and most money will benefit most, from a single payer.
    Example, Medicare.
    If countries with totally dysfunctional political systems like Italy and Greece are able to reign in their health care costs with a universal health care system, I'm pretty confident that we can too.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-06-11 at 06:59 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand. If the government controls the money, they control your health. If they control your health, they control your life. Why would you ever want that?
    As opposed to having a corporation control your life?
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  6. #36
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand. If the government controls the money, they control your health. If they control your health, they control your life. Why would you ever want that?
    I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand that we are the government. I would rather have my health care decided by my representatives than by private companies that I have no control over, who put their profit before my health. Boo has already suggested we can have a tiered system with private health care available as an option.

    The system we have been stuck with, is the most expensive in the world, and unaffordable now to 1/6 of our fellow citizens. More and more are having to travel outside the U.S. to receive affordable health care.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #37
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    As opposed to having a corporation control your life?
    I don't have a corporation controlling my life.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  8. #38
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    I don't have a corporation controlling my life.
    If you have private health insurance, then they have control over your life in exactly the same way that you just described the government would have control over your life.
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  9. #39
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand that we are the government. I would rather have my health care decided by my representatives than by private companies that I have no control over, who put their profit before my health. Boo has already suggested we can have a tiered system with private health care available as an option.

    The system we have been stuck with, is the most expensive in the world, and unaffordable now to 1/6 of our fellow citizens. More and more are having to travel outside the U.S. to receive affordable health care.
    You think you have control over your representative? That's a riot. You have a lot more control over a company trying to do business with you than you do a politician. A business deals with you one on one, a politician blows in the direction of the political winds. If you are up wind of him, you ain't gettin nuttin.

    You do realize where all the extra money goes? Approximately $200 a month, or $2400 per yer per person at about $650 billion a year is wasted by having comprehensive medical insurance. If you subtract that from out total cost for health care, you would find we have one of the cheapest systems in the world. We spend $2 trillion a year on health care and we would spend $1.35 if we didn't have comprehensive health insurance. It is a full on waste of money. There is no math in the world that can make comprehensive health insurance better for you. It is like playing roulette. Play long enough and you will lose. It doesn't matter if the government runs it or a private company. You lose.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  10. #40
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    If you have private health insurance, then they have control over your life in exactly the same way that you just described the government would have control over your life.
    No, they don't. I have a contract with them and they are required to pay claims with in that contract. The government regulates that. If the government is the one you hold the contract with, who regulates them?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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