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  • I live in a country with UHC and I would never want privatized-only medicine

    12 24.49%
  • I live in a country with UHC and I do want privatized-only medicine

    2 4.08%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I want UHC

    24 48.98%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I would never want UHC

    8 16.33%
  • I live in a country with privatized-only medicine and I want a public option only

    3 6.12%
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Thread: UHC vs Privatized Care

  1. #21
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Is there a measure of general healthiness that you prefer which shows the United States routinely outperforming countries with UHC? The most common stats (e.g. life expectancy, infant mortality, all-cause DALY, etc) all point to the same conclusion: the United States is, at best, middling among developed countries when it comes to measures of wellbeing.



    This is a minor issue that in no way negates the economic and social harm that our private health care system does. Is there a reason that Medicare couldn't simply be structured like that as well? If Medicare is not structured optimally then it should be changed, but this doesn't change the fact that a government-run system simply produces better results on the whole than a private system.
    The "harm" of private healthcare is overstated. People always talk about what it doesn't provide, instead of seeing what it does provide, on a daily basis. For instance, people always focus on what isn't covered or what was rejected. They don't care to spend the time to research the services that were provided, the treatments that do occur, etc.....

    I've been on all 3 sides of this debate. As a consumer, an insurance agent, and now as a healthcare provider. If you seriously think that there is just one solution that benefits everybody then you aren't seeing the big picture. You have to balance the idea of maintaining an advanced research and development of medical equipment, techniques, etc... The best way for that to happen is a profit based model. That creates revenue for those things. You have to keep the consumers healthy to start with, that is a role I would like to see the government expand a bit. Preventative treatments/screenings/education. You have a moral obligation to your seniors who carried the nation, again a government/societal role, and you have to make sure that providers are able to afford to have careers to efficiently deliver healthcare, which both private and government models can provide through profit based models for increasing pay, and licensure/verification by the government to make sure that the healthcare pool does not become oversaturated with incompetent providers.

    There is no reason to eschew on for the other. Both models should be used for what they can provide to the entire healthcare model. There is more at stake than just tax payer dollars, or insurance premiums. There are industries, jobs, and careers on the line as well.
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  2. #22
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    That's fine. I mean a private-only system. Apparently I did a ****ty job clarifying that, and I apologize.

    Yes, the first two questions should read:

    "I live in a country with UHC and I would never want privatized-only medicine"
    "I live in a country with UHC and I do want privatized-only medicine"

    *Edit:

    In fact, any mod that reads this and is feeling froggy, I would much appreciate if all of the places that say "privatized" be changed to "privatized-only". Thanks for your help if you do help!
    That is OK I read your replies after I had posted

    Now I not only live with both I have worked in both - as a nurse the one group you really really want to ask about which system is better.

    Private:- If you like fancy foyers and pretty glossy brochures fine. Also good if you want free TV, bigger nicer menu and free newspapers and internet connection, and a private room where you do not have to put up with the derelict in the bed next door. Good for minor and simple ops

    Public - for anything serious what so ever. Advantages - for a start more than one bloody doctor (which can also be a disadvantage if you are stuck with the wet behind the ears junior trying to be a nurses nightmare) but they have access to the states best infection control specialists to review your antibiotics if need be, they can call on other experts at a seconds notice without you having to spend an extra dime. Example - my worst Night Duty EVER! I had eight medical officers including two heads of department in my ICU at 2 am in the morning as a woman with crappy heart valves was trying to have a baby! This poor woman did not speak English but an obscure foreign dialect and we were watching and gnawing our fingers to the bone - if she could have managed it it would have been safer for her to have had a natural birth - less stress on the heart but the second we had foetal distress we got her out of there and into the theatre to do a caesar

    This would not have happened in the private system
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  3. #23
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Moderator's Warning:
    UHC vs Privatized CarePoll options edited at users request.
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Because of who would be running our UHC. Look no further than the debacle of how they run Medicare services, and then go ahead and extend that model of inefficiency and waste to 100% of the population.
    Medicare is well run. It is the underlying problem that private health care insurance providers also face, the most expensive health care system in the world. Do you think completely privatizing the HCS would eliminate the unaffordable cost problem for Americans???? Private health care insurance is already unaffordable for 1/6 of the country. No other industrialized country in the world excludes 1/6 of its population from affordable health care.

    It doesn't matter what you do. Your healthcare is either going to be the subject of profit based motives (private industry), or budget based motives( read: election votes). We would have changes to the UHC system every time an election came up. Our system, flawed as it is, is a mixed system of pooled risk. Some sectors (poor and elderly) are covered or have the potential to be covered (if they choose) by government programs. The young and typically healthier partake in a private insurance industry pool risk (for the most part). So we already have both here.
    As has been pointed out, we can have a two tiered system that includes both public and private. Its obvious though we cannot continue with a system that is unaffordable for 1/6 of our fellow citizens.

    What people in this country want is top notch medical care and services extended to everybody. The problem is, nobody wants to pay for it themselves.
    No one is expecting a free lunch, just not being forced to travel outside the country to receive affordable health care.
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  5. #25
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Because of who would be running our UHC. Look no further than the debacle of how they run Medicare services, and then go ahead and extend that model of inefficiency and waste to 100% of the population.

    It doesn't matter what you do. Your healthcare is either going to be the subject of profit based motives (private industry), or budget based motives( read: election votes). We would have changes to the UHC system every time an election came up.

    Our system, flawed as it is, is a mixed system of pooled risk. Some sectors (poor and elderly) are covered or have the potential to be covered (if they choose) by government programs. The young and typically healthier partake in a private insurance industry pool risk (for the most part). So we already have both here.

    What people in this country want is top notch medical care and services extended to everybody. The problem is, nobody wants to pay for it themselves.
    Much like those who try to compare US to Canada or England, this too is an imporper comparison. Medicare is a system that houses only those most likely to need care. That makes it much more difficult to run. A proper single payer system would not eliminate the need for medicare and medciad, but have the entire population as particpants. This makes in much easier to manage. It would save money and allow for greater access. And as it can be two teired, thus not hindering care or the right to spend more if you have it and want it, there is little doubt the overall the system would be better for everyone.

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  6. #26
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    This is from a post I made on another thread: “I was enlisted Air Force, and therefore I received a lower level of medical care than officers. (I had several personal experiences and several observations that clearly demonstrated this; and it appears to be true currently.) In the military this can be considered just in a system where people are not equal. In fact most of the world is like this. So, if we had a basic government regulated system for emergency health care (or health care in general) where the government had their noses in it to minimize cost but provide some fairly good care; then allowed private companies to sell insurance policies for expenses above what the government system provided, would we have an architecture for a solution?”

    Right now we have several classes of people when it comes to health care. One class is the no insurance class. The no insurance class costs me money is several ways, e.g. having to charge me more to cover the cost of treating the no insurance class. Many members of the no insurance class are children that are not getting timely treatment when the costs would be the lowest so they are costing me more, sometimes much more over a long time. Unless we find a way to not treat those that can’t pay, including having them die in the ER parking lot, we’ll continue with this high cost architecture for health care.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 12-06-11 at 02:25 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    How many people on DP do we have that are from countries with UHC?
    Depends, the U.S. has "sectorized" versions of UHC.
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  8. #28
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    You guys can argue that validity of UHC all you want as that is what the thread is for, but I'd really love to hear from those who live in a country with that system and their opinions on the treatment they receive and the benefits/downsides of it. Also, I'd like to know whether they would prefer to switch to a privatized-only system (for the few members that are not in the US).
    Well see, most people would characterize the U.S. as a majority privatized system, but a majority of medical spending in the U.S. comes from public sources.
    Is the U.S. a private or public system?
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  9. #29
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Well see, most people would characterize the U.S. as a majority privatized system, but a majority of medical spending in the U.S. comes from public sources.
    Is the U.S. a private or public system?
    It's a system with all of the abuses and inequalities of private care, but few of the cost savings or efficiencies of public care.
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  10. #30
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    Re: UHC vs Privatized Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    It's a system with all of the abuses and inequalities of private care, but few of the cost savings or efficiencies of public care.
    If you're thinking that greater overhead costs are something natural to private insurance, you should review the laws passed, specifically the HMO act and the minimum benefit mandates, pushed by the states and the feds.

    Me thinks your beliefs about this are too one sided.

    Also, politicians in America will have a hard time making those cost efficiencies in public medical care programs, actually materialize.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 12-06-11 at 06:19 PM.
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