View Poll Results: Which is more important?

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  • Freedom

    44 83.02%
  • Financial Security

    9 16.98%
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Thread: Which is more important?

  1. #61
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what came first, the chicken or the egg?
    You mean the chicken or the apple.

    Financial security does not mean wealth, if that's what the OP is getting at.

    I've heard this question posed before as, which is more imortant: freedom or personal safety?

    Didn't Franklin say something like anyone who prefers safety to freedom deserves niether? (That's the gist, as I recall, if not verbatim.)

  2. #62
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Define freedom in the context of this thread.
    Not constrained by government.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  3. #63
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Not constrained by government.
    So, if you're only enslaved by a private citizen, you're still a free man?

  4. #64
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    So, if you're only enslaved by a private citizen, you're still a free man?
    Remember when your teacher said there is no such thing as a dumb question? She/he was wrong.

    There is no enslavement in private industry in the US or any other industrialized nation.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  5. #65
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Financial security - Having an appropiate financial plan and enough financial resources to adequately fulfill any needs or most wants of an individual or business.

    Freedom in the context used by the framers is talking about political or national independence. Another aspect of freedom that most Americans think of when you say freedom is personal liberty. Which is: The liberty of an individual to do his or her will freely except for those restraints imposed by law to safeguard the physical, moral, political, and economic welfare of others.

    Financial security in practice is amassing wealth. Everyone amasses wealth in some degree. Putting limits on wealth also puts limits on liberty. Just as limiting free speech puts limits on free speech. You cannot have financial security if you are not allowed to have it. While freedom does not guarantee financial security will be obtained by everyone with the freedom to try, absolutely everyone with no freedom is guaranteed to have no meaningful financial security.

  6. #66
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    There is no enslavement in private industry in the US or any other industrialized nation.
    Keep telling yourself that. It ain't true, but it's a nice thing to believe in.

  7. #67
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Keep telling yourself that. It ain't true, but it's a nice thing to believe in.
    You can't come up with one example of enslavement other than an example that is nothing more than "I don't like my choices so I must be a slave."
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  8. #68
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    Keep telling yourself that. It ain't true, but it's a nice thing to believe in.
    Keep telling yourself that working is slavery.

  9. #69
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Financial security is only present is there is significant freedom.
    Without financial security one could have all their money taken via all sorts of mechanisms; so one could have the freedom to have lunch but no money to buy it.
    Easy choice.
    But some people would have the freedom to have lunch AND the money to buy it, right? So we take the freedom to have lunch from the guy who has the money to buy it- so he has money and still goes hungry... then we take his money and give it to the guy who wanted to trade freedom for money- and then he has money too, but no freedom to buy lunch. So they can both go hungry. Great plan. LOL.

  10. #70
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    apparently you didn't "get" my william wallace photo. he wasn't the first or last person to willingly die for an ideal such as freedom. maslow's cannot account for this. maslow's hierarchy is a pretty crude, back-of-the-envelope generalization of how humans act. violations of maslow's hierarchy are hardly even uncommon.

    your extreme example of someone having freedom but on the verge of starving to death, can be countered by my extreme example of someone being tightly chained to a cell floor, absolutely immobilized, but they get supplied with 3 square meals a day, intravenously.

    Nobody wants either scenario and they don't shed much light on the matter at hand.
    Which again, has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

    As for the matter at hand, exactly what is the matter at hand? Sure, you can be fed and not free. But if you are starving, can't get out of the hell you're in, can you be free? I say you really can't until you reach a certain level. And if I'm at a certain level, I might even consider dying for freedom. But, I won't even consider it until my mind is free enough to.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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