View Poll Results: Which is more important?

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  • Freedom

    44 83.02%
  • Financial Security

    9 16.98%
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Thread: Which is more important?

  1. #51
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This is exactly what I'm talking about. You're defining freedom solely in terms of others "denying you" something rather than actually being able to do what you want. Then you proclaim that OTHERS don't understand freedom.
    well, in a philosophical context, that's the generally accepted definition of freedom. A midget can't dunk a basketball. A 6'6" black guy locked in a cell can't dunk either. But there's a meaningful distinction between why each cannot dunk a basketball. In the philosophical sense of the word "free", the midget is "free" to dunk (although he is physically unable) while the prisoner is not. The distinction being that, in the case of the prisoner, conscious moral agents are responsible for keeping the black guy from dunking.

    (that example's pretty straightforward, but it's easy to twist the variables a bit and things can get hairy real fast)

  2. #52
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    well, in a philosophical context, that's the generally accepted definition of freedom. A midget can't dunk a basketball. A 6'6" black guy locked in a cell can't dunk either. But there's a meaningful distinction between why each cannot dunk a basketball. In the philosophical sense of the word "free", the midget is "free" to dunk (although he is physically unable) while the prisoner is not. The distinction being that, in the case of the prisoner, conscious moral agents are responsible for keeping the black guy from dunking.

    (that example's pretty straightforward, but it's easy to twist the variables a bit and things can get hairy real fast)
    That fits more with those who claim you can be anything you want to be. Woody Allen was never going to be Larry Bird. However, those examples are a little different than what is included on Maslow's heirarchy. Freedom is something we invented. A construct. One who is only trying to survive has no real concept of freedom. And if asked, would like either laugh or hit you. I remember an Iraqi talking to a US solider who couldn't understand why the Iraqi was happy to be free. The Iraqi said something to the effect, "Freedom? I don't have food and I'm not safe. What good is freedom?"

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #53
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That fits more with those who claim you can be anything you want to be. Woody Allen was never going to be Larry Bird. However, those examples are a little different than what is included on Maslow's heirarchy. Freedom is something we invented. A construct. One who is only trying to survive has no real concept of freedom. And if asked, would like either laugh or hit you. I remember an Iraqi talking to a US solider who couldn't understand why the Iraqi was happy to be free. The Iraqi said something to the effect, "Freedom? I don't have food and I'm not safe. What good is freedom?"
    apparently you didn't "get" my william wallace photo. he wasn't the first or last person to willingly die for an ideal such as freedom. maslow's cannot account for this. maslow's hierarchy is a pretty crude, back-of-the-envelope generalization of how humans act. violations of maslow's hierarchy are hardly even uncommon.

    your extreme example of someone having freedom but on the verge of starving to death, can be countered by my extreme example of someone being tightly chained to a cell floor, absolutely immobilized, but they get supplied with 3 square meals a day, intravenously.

    Nobody wants either scenario and they don't shed much light on the matter at hand.

  4. #54
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Freedom is more important, but fortunately, we don't need to choose, because freedom brings prosperity.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  5. #55
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Freedom is more important, but fortunately, we don't need to choose, because freedom brings prosperity.
    Does it? Where are all the rich anarchists?
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  6. #56
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    Re: Which is more important?

    what came first, the chicken or the egg?

  7. #57
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Does it? Where are all the rich anarchists?
    they all OD'd on really good heroin

  8. #58
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    Re: Which is more important?

    No brainer to me...I put freedom...without your freedom there is no security for anything.

  9. #59
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    what came first, the chicken or the egg?
    You put financial security admit it...you'd give up your freedom for a buck right ? Id better put a disclmaer here turtle I was joking
    Last edited by lpast; 12-02-11 at 11:44 PM.

  10. #60
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    I was wondering what you think is more important. You can only pick one, so which is it? Don't cop out and say you want both, you can only pick one.
    I need to know more: what do you mean by both of these terms?
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
    Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow

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