View Poll Results: Which is more important?

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  • Freedom

    44 83.02%
  • Financial Security

    9 16.98%
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Thread: Which is more important?

  1. #31
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Being able to live is again part of freedom but falling short and dieing is sadly again freedom. No one ever said freedom meant survival. Freedom includes the freedom to fail.



    Social justice strips freedom from one to give results to another. Freedom and social justice are in opposition.
    No, it really isn't. As I said, freedom is a construct. Before laws, no one even asked abut freedom. You either survived or you didn't. Laws and people grouping into societies allowed people the freedom to even consider if they were free or not.

    Now, once at the level, yes, you have the preedom to fail. But failure is not equal to survivial. If survival is at stake, freedom is not a concern or consideration.

    As for social justice, a completely different topic, a society can be oppressive to a group of people, and thus deny them freedom. So, I'm not sure exactly where you're trying to go.

    I'm going to be leaving for my run and won't likely get back today, but if I do, I'll check on your response. if not, tomorrow.

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  2. #32
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Another way to look at it. I fail to see the point in making us choose between one or the other when they are both interrelated.
    I agree, I think choosing one over the other would only define you as an extremist.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Well, you can have freedom yet be screwed by corporations and other cuts/political movements that leave you in squalor, or you can have financial security yet not have freedom.

    Is it so hard to want both? As it is right now picking either/or absolutely sucks.

  4. #34
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Prisoners have financial security. Financial security is also a claim that Communism offers. Also Financial security is what parents offer their children. Finanial security does not promise freedom, but the idea of being free to make your own decisions at least gives you a chance to obtain financial security.

    With freedom you can fight against those that try to deny you of financial security. Without freedom you are controlled.

    Without freedom if you did not have financial security there would be no way to obtain it. And if the system fails and the system was what gave financial freedom would fail with it.

  5. #35
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They have nothing to do with each other. Only someone that truly doesn't understand freedom will say they are connected.
    Not true. Financial security gives you the freedom to do as you please. Sure, you can say that a poor person who works his ass off at a job he hates is "free" to choose to starve to death instead of working...just like someone could say that a North Korean who is literally a slave is "free" to choose to starve to death instead of complying with his tormenter.

    The ones who don't understand freedom are the people who define it solely in terms of absence of interference from the state. Freedom is the ability to do what you want without infringing on other's rights...which the poor most certainly do not have. If you are unable to do what you want (whether it's protesting an unjust law, or starting a business, or getting an education, or raising a family, or whatever) it doesn't really matter, from a practical standpoint, whether it's because the state is preventing you or because your checkbook is preventing you. Either way the result is the same.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 12-01-11 at 08:30 PM.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Freedom and financial security are completely separate don't know how you could argue otherwise. Homeless folks are as free as I am, doesn't make them happy, but that's beside the point.

  7. #37
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    Re: Which is more important?

    For me it's a no-brainer. At my age with no financial security, the only thing I'd be "free" to do is beg for food and hack myself to death on a freezing park bench.

  8. #38
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If survival is at stake, freedom is not a concern or consideration.
    Oh?


  9. #39
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Freedom and financial security are completely separate don't know how you could argue otherwise. Homeless folks are as free as I am, doesn't make them happy, but that's beside the point.
    Your avatar calls to mind a fitting quote

    "It's not until you've lost everything, that you're free to do anything."

  10. #40
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    Re: Which is more important?

    If you are free you normally can achieve financial freedom. If you are a slave you never will

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