View Poll Results: Which is more important?

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  • Freedom

    44 83.02%
  • Financial Security

    9 16.98%
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Thread: Which is more important?

  1. #21
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think I understand freedom. Which is why I referenced Maslow. I have to have mimimal needs met before I can even think freedom. If I'm too worried about survival, I am not free. In fact, freedom won't even be a consideration.
    This again makes no sense. If you are able to live the way you wish or not has little to nothing to do with if your freedom is enact or not. You also don't need to think of freedom or even understand freedom to have it or not making the entire idea of the importance of you thinking about it nonsensical.

  2. #22
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    Freedom allows for opportunity of financial security. Without freedom, without the right to choose your own path in life, you could never be 'secure' financially.
    Another way to look at it. I fail to see the point in making us choose between one or the other when they are both interrelated.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #23
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I fail to see how the two are mutually exclusive. At all. If anything, financial security PROVIDES for freedom of action.
    Freedom of action is what provides the chance financial security. Sorry, you have it backwards.

  4. #24
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Another way to look at it. I fail to see the point in making us choose between one or the other when they are both interrelated.
    I could be free without being financially secure; it depends on your definition of freedom. If freedom is defined as my inalienable rights (as defined by the constitution) not being infringed upon, there is nothing necessitating that I become financially secure. So I can be free without being financially secure; I just don't see how the opposite could be true.

  5. #25
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Penderyn View Post
    You can only conceivably have freedom under socialism. Under capitalism you are a slave to bosses and chance. What security could there passibly be under this crazy system?

    ...what? There is no freedom under socialism.
    Last edited by Wake; 12-01-11 at 03:37 PM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    ...what? There is no freedom socialism.
    Yup. With no means to own the means of production you have violated freedom. The only system that is free is a system that allows all possibilities that don't violate the rights of other people. Socialism fails on that front.

  7. #27
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    I could be free without being financially secure; it depends on your definition of freedom. If freedom is defined as my inalienable rights (as defined by the constitution) not being infringed upon, there is nothing necessitating that I become financially secure. So I can be free without being financially secure; I just don't see how the opposite could be true.
    Agreed. I suppose I don't entirely understand why the OP is making us choose between one or the other. Maybe if there were some examples or if we defined both freedom and financial security.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #28
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    This again makes no sense. If you are able to live the way you wish or not has little to nothing to do with if your freedom is enact or not. You also don't need to think of freedom or even understand freedom to have it or not making the entire idea of the importance of you thinking about it nonsensical.
    I cannot be able to live the way I wish if I don't have the means to even live. It's nealry impossible. Survival takes first priority. Not freedom.

    Freedom is a construct. It's a higher ideal that only those who are far enough up the needs list that more important needs are no longer a concern. The only real question is when are we at that place.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #29
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    Re: Which is more important?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I cannot be able to live the way I wish if I don't have the means to even live. It's nealry impossible. Survival takes first priority. Not freedom.
    Being able to live is again part of freedom but falling short and dieing is sadly again freedom. No one ever said freedom meant survival. Freedom includes the freedom to fail.

    Freedom is a construct. It's a higher ideal that only those who are far enough up the needs list that more important needs are no longer a concern. The only real question is when are we at that place.
    Social justice strips freedom from one to give results to another. Freedom and social justice are in opposition.
    Last edited by Henrin; 12-01-11 at 03:53 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Which is more important?

    freedom is the most important thing.....but a nation can only have freedom if it has enough financial support..

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