View Poll Results: Would you approve of the individual mandate if it were passed as an amendment?

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Thread: To those against Obamacare -

  1. #41
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    We all pay for shoplifters and destructive children in increased prices at the grocery store. Should the government modify retailer regulations and laws in order to "protect" us from the harm of others?

    We all pay for the increased costs of law enforcement when neighborhoods degrade and crime increases. Should the government mandate that we all buy specific products designed to decrease our risk of break-in/robbery?

    Do you see where I'm going with this? Mandating that we buy health insurance because we're paying for the actions of others and assuming that such a mandate somehow "protects" anybody in the process is....silly. And yeah, it is a slippery slope.
    kinda seems like the obvious solution is to have the person receiving the healthcare pay.

  2. #42
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    as for Obamacare... we're at the point now where it can't be fully implemented. it was a disastrous, slapdash mess that nobody understood to begin with, and our national fisc has now reached the limit of it's ability to take on that kind of burden.

  3. #43
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    As for ObamaCare, cpwill is going to make a sweeping post with a few unsubstantiated claims as usual. Other than that, not much else is going on.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  4. #44
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    kinda seems like the obvious solution is to have the person receiving the healthcare pay.
    Good luck with that. We have present day examples showing it isn't happening, even with serious collection efforts.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #45
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    As for ObamaCare, cpwill is going to make a sweeping post with a few unsubstantiated claims as usual. Other than that, not much else is going on.
    well, so far we've seen $500 Bn of the "savings" wiped away when they passed the doc fix, another 130Bn or so of "savings" wiped away when they got rid of the CLASS Act, government at all levels is way behind their deadlines, growth turned out to be way lower than they estimated when they scored the bill, and now we are learning that the number of people who will be flooding the exchanges and taking the subsidies is likely to be about 4 times the number predicted by the CBO.

    meanwhile, Medicare goes broke in 2021, Social Security is running a permanent deficit, our current budget was already planning on trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.

    i'm telling you man, this ain't gonna happen the seams are already coming apart, and if we stuff another major expense in there like this, the thing explodes.

  6. #46
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I think it was last year Don posted a thread about the request for reimbursement increases submitted by the AMA or whoever does it and the numbers where scarey. The system was broken.
    It wasn't broke, before Obamacare was passed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #47
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not being prepared for it is. As sure as we live, we know there is a chance of getting ill or injured. It happens and we know it happens. And while not as easy to avoid as not driving, the fact remains, we know it is going to happen to someone.

    And if someone truely can show they will not accpet care, simply die on the street, and have family pick them up, and handle it, that might be cause to opt out. But both those people can likely ahndle that.
    I would much rather have a UHC system than mandated health insurance. At least with a UHC, I know which doctors I can go to and should know pretty quickly how much it will cost me to get treatment from them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #48
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I would actually do the opposite. The healthcare industry is woefully underregulated... or at least underregulated in the wrong areas. I would take away most of the coverage and standards from the states and give it to the federal government so that there starts to be some uniformity, consistency, and ease of transferring coverage.
    They are the ones who messed it up Cap. A lot of people don't know this, but the reason that group benefits exist today and specifically group health coverage is because of depression era wage freezes initiated by Roosevelt, employers needed some way to entice employees to stay so they started to get creative. That was the beginning of intervention.

    Many M.D.s have only the option of taking no payment rather than barter, which means if they do want to show mercy to an indigent patient they must make up for it later. There is no excuse for an artificial student ceiling mandated against med schools, and we have insurance commissioners in our own states to decide what the state's needs are. Federal intervention has created a huge mess.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  9. #49
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not likely. The slippery slope is often called a fallacy for a reason. You would have to show that you not eating your weaties harms soeone else. We can show that with lack of insurance. You don't have it, get hurt, treated and the cost is passed on to all of us. We pay for you. This is a fact.
    Me not eating my Wheaties harms the farmers who grow wheat. Just ask Wickard v. Filburn.

    You are assuming that when I get hurt and treated that I don't pay for it.

  10. #50
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    They are the ones who messed it up Cap. A lot of people don't know this, but the reason that group benefits exist today and specifically group health coverage is because of depression era wage freezes initiated by Roosevelt, employers needed some way to entice employees to stay so they started to get creative. That was the beginning of intervention.

    Many M.D.s have only the option of taking no payment rather than barter, which means if they do want to show mercy to an indigent patient they must make up for it later. There is no excuse for an artificial student ceiling mandated against med schools, and we have insurance commissioners in our own states to decide what the state's needs are. Federal intervention has created a huge mess.
    If we are going to talk numbers, then we at least have to admit that UHC has a huge advantage over any private scheme - and that's law of large numbers. With UHC, anyone who has an income would be paying in. That, in and of itself, should reduce uncertainty drastically, which lowers the premium that is required to insure each individual. So we can blame this or that, but UHC is inherently cheaper because of its ability to reduce uncertainty. Then, after that, you can start discussing prevention vs treatment, since more people would be able to visit family doctors and search for early warning signs. This, too, makes health care cheaper.

    Anyway, I felt that was worthy of being pointed out - just by a quick look at numbers UHC should work out cheaper in the long run. And, according to cost of health care per person world wide, statistics do show that countries with UHC pay roughly half of what we pay.

    *Edit:

    ****, and then if you were to provide some sort of amnesty to illegal workers, getting documentation for taxation - my God. We might actually have a workable system.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 12-01-11 at 01:19 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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