View Poll Results: Would you approve of the individual mandate if it were passed as an amendment?

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Thread: To those against Obamacare -

  1. #31
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    I'm against the mandate because of the slippery slope argument, because based on its use, the government can force you to buy only Wheaties cereal because of the regulated Wheat market.

    I'm against the law as a whole because its not the government's place to fundamentally alter an entire industry's basic premise. With the law, they've changed the rule that "insurance protects against a possible outcome" to "insurance protects against anything than can happen, will happen, or did happen". With that change, its no longer insurance.

  2. #32
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    I'm against the mandate because of the slippery slope argument, because based on its use, the government can force you to buy only Wheaties cereal because of the regulated Wheat market.

    I'm against the law as a whole because its not the government's place to fundamentally alter an entire industry's basic premise. With the law, they've changed the rule that "insurance protects against a possible outcome" to "insurance protects against anything than can happen, will happen, or did happen". With that change, its no longer insurance.
    Not likely. The slippery slope is often called a fallacy for a reason. You would have to show that you not eating your weaties harms soeone else. We can show that with lack of insurance. You don't have it, get hurt, treated and the cost is passed on to all of us. We pay for you. This is a fact.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #33
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not likely. The slippery slope is often called a fallacy for a reason. You would have to show that you not eating your weaties harms soeone else. We can show that with lack of insurance. You don't have it, get hurt, treated and the cost is passed on to all of us. We pay for you. This is a fact.
    You honestly think the law would clearly define that a design to mandate product purchase must be made on any specific condition? And even if they did use some sort of "general good" clause, you realize it would be incredibly easy to come up with a reason why Wheaties is necessary for the "better good", or why Chevy is the only acceptable manufacturer from whom you can purchase cars, or why you can only buy appliances made by GE, etc., etc., etc?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  4. #34
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Where is the "Good God No!!" option?
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  5. #35
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    You honestly think the law would clearly define that a design to mandate product purchase must be made on any specific condition? And even if they did use some sort of "general good" clause, you realize it would be incredibly easy to come up with a reason why Wheaties is necessary for the "better good", or why Chevy is the only acceptable manufacturer from whom you can purchase cars, or why you can only buy appliances made by GE, etc., etc., etc?
    No, I don't think they can come up with equally viable rationale. When you make me pay for you, it is fair for me to demand some responsibility out of you. This is the very same rationale used with auto insurance. It isn't whether one product is beter than another, as no one is saying what insurance you have to purchase, but only that you're covered. This is insisting that you protect us from your irresponsibility.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #36
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I don't think they can come up with equally viable rationale. When you make me pay for you, it is fair for me to demand some responsibility out of you. This is the very same rationale used with auto insurance. It isn't whether one product is beter than another, as no one is saying what insurance you have to purchase, but only that you're covered. This is insisting that you protect us from your irresponsibility.
    We all pay for shoplifters and destructive children in increased prices at the grocery store. Should the government modify retailer regulations and laws in order to "protect" us from the harm of others?

    We all pay for the increased costs of law enforcement when neighborhoods degrade and crime increases. Should the government mandate that we all buy specific products designed to decrease our risk of break-in/robbery?

    Do you see where I'm going with this? Mandating that we buy health insurance because we're paying for the actions of others and assuming that such a mandate somehow "protects" anybody in the process is....silly. And yeah, it is a slippery slope.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  7. #37
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I don't think they can come up with equally viable rationale. When you make me pay for you, it is fair for me to demand some responsibility out of you. This is the very same rationale used with auto insurance. It isn't whether one product is beter than another, as no one is saying what insurance you have to purchase, but only that you're covered. This is insisting that you protect us from your irresponsibility.
    But being alive and getting ill or hurt is not being irresponsible. If a person, such as myself, does not feel that they will be a responsible driver, they can simply choose not to get a driver's license, and they no longer need to get insurance. But that won't work for this mandate because a person who believes in using no medicine or curing themselves will still have to get insurance, or even if they could pay for something that happens to them that they can't take care of themselves.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  8. #38
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    We all pay for shoplifters and destructive children in increased prices at the grocery store. Should the government modify retailer regulations and laws in order to "protect" us from the harm of others?

    We all pay for the increased costs of law enforcement when neighborhoods degrade and crime increases. Should the government mandate that we all buy specific products designed to decrease our risk of break-in/robbery?

    Do you see where I'm going with this? Mandating that we buy health insurance because we're paying for the actions of others and assuming that such a mandate somehow "protects" anybody in the process is....silly. And yeah, it is a slippery slope.
    And shop lifting is a against the law. So are kids destroying things. The law says they can't do that. The does not presently say you can't be unisured or be treated if you can't pay.

    Where you're trying to go isn't really working for me. This is an easy fix in which we ahve nothing in place presently to fix. Unlike the things you cite, there is no law to cover it until now.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #39
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But being alive and getting ill or hurt is not being irresponsible. If a person, such as myself, does not feel that they will be a responsible driver, they can simply choose not to get a driver's license, and they no longer need to get insurance. But that won't work for this mandate because a person who believes in using no medicine or curing themselves will still have to get insurance, or even if they could pay for something that happens to them that they can't take care of themselves.
    Not being prepared for it is. As sure as we live, we know there is a chance of getting ill or injured. It happens and we know it happens. And while not as easy to avoid as not driving, the fact remains, we know it is going to happen to someone.

    And if someone truely can show they will not accpet care, simply die on the street, and have family pick them up, and handle it, that might be cause to opt out. But both those people can likely ahndle that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #40
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    You honestly think the law would clearly define that a design to mandate product purchase must be made on any specific condition? And even if they did use some sort of "general good" clause, you realize it would be incredibly easy to come up with a reason why Wheaties is necessary for the "better good", or why Chevy is the only acceptable manufacturer from whom you can purchase cars, or why you can only buy appliances made by GE, etc., etc., etc?
    Given that Republicans look likely to take the Senate and even odds at least to take the White House, you would think they would be more careful about expanding the power of the federal government so


    "All Americans benefit from Republican leadership, but some Americans refuse to pull their fair share by purchasing membership in the GOP, which only costs 5% of your take-home pay. We therefore mandate that the Americans who haven't been pulling their weight, but rather expecting others to cover them...."

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