View Poll Results: Would you approve of the individual mandate if it were passed as an amendment?

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    3 7.32%
  • No

    37 90.24%
  • Possibly/Other

    1 2.44%
Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 103

Thread: To those against Obamacare -

  1. #21
    Sage
    lpast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fla
    Last Seen
    05-21-16 @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    13,565

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    We need to find a solution to the millions of people and growing that have no health insurance. We all pay for them any way.
    No one gets turned away from a hospital and you can go day or night into emergency rooms in populated areas and its full of people with thier kids that are sick with no insurance. Were paying for it...to just say everyone has to buy their own is just well dumb...everyone knows thats not possible.
    In my county in flordia every resident pays 50 a yr to the community hospital for indigent care. I dont know if business pays it, Im assuming they do.
    Obama care is a mess and it wont work and even the writers know it wont work because they are giving waivers out like candy.
    The gop and the dem have to sit down and work out a solution, but that wont happen until aliens land here and show them how to do it.

  2. #22
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    Assuming you are against the 'individual mandate' clause, would you support it if it were instead passed as an Amendment to the constitution?
    No.Taking Obama care and making it a constitutional amendment does not make me want to support it.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #23
    Student Blackstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    05-21-17 @ 08:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    218

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    We need to find a solution to the millions of people and growing that have no health insurance.
    The true number of uninsured Americans is anywhere between 5 and 30 million, depending on how you want to calculate it. Millions of the uninsured can afford health insurance, but choose for one reason or another not to purchase it. The government's official figure, touted by the Obama administration last year, was just under 46 million, but failed to account, for example, for the (conservatively estimated) 11 million undocumented workers in this country. It also ignores the large number of uninsured who can afford health insurance or are the minor of someone who can, but chooses not to carry coverage for whatever reason.

    We all pay for them any way. No one gets turned away from a hospital and you can go day or night into emergency rooms in populated areas and its full of people with thier kids that are sick with no insurance. Were paying for it...
    If you see the problem as one of having to pay for the uninsured by way of increased costs and premiums due to offsetting the unpaid expenses of "free riders" then perhaps you should be advocating for reform the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), the federal law requiring hospitals to provide care to those who cannot pay.

    ...to just say everyone has to buy their own is just well dumb...everyone knows thats not possible.
    No more than saying that every one is responsible for paying for his own gas so he can drive to and from work each day or paying for his own life insurance so his funeral costs aren't dumped on those he leaves behind. As with virtually everything else in life, if you can't afford something, you go without it. People faced with the choice of buying health insurance (or saving for unexpected medical expenses) or, let's say, eating out and seeing the most recent movies more often each month would be more apt to make the wiser choice if we forced them to actually live with the consequences of their choices. It's called accountability, something EMTALA does a lot to undermine.

    In my county in flordia every resident pays 50 a yr to the community hospital for indigent care. I dont know if business pays it, Im assuming they do.
    I suggest you find out how that's paid for because I guarantee you pay it. One way or another. If the government provides it, it's paid by tax dollars. If the government forces businesses to pay for it, that business has raised the price of its goods and services in order to cover it. Any tax on business is passed on to consumers. Businesses don't pay taxes, people do. If you think your community is getting away without paying the bill then you need to examine the money trail more closely, I think.

    Obama care is a mess and it wont work and even the writers know it wont work because they are giving waivers out like candy.
    It is a mess and it won't work if by "work" you mean "improve the quality and lower the cost of healthcare". The point of Obamacare isn't to develop a world-class health delivery system or reduce costs. Anyone who has read the bill's provisions can see that plainly. Obamacare is merely a wealth transfer agent and a giant step towards full government control of 1/7th of the U.S. economy. It is a vote-buying scheme, designed to render ever greater numbers of potential voters dependent on government for their livelihood in order to create a permanent electoral majority for the Santa Claus party. Democrats love to act magnanimous and hand out "free" goodies to "children" (both naughty and nice) and be loved in return, but the truth is that Santa Claus doesn't exist and when children unwrap their gifts and empty their stockings on Christmas Day, it's the adults in the room that paid for everything.

    The gop and the dem have to sit down and work out a solution, but that wont happen until aliens land here and show them how to do it.
    Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and rammed Obamacare down Americans throats, in case you were sleeping for most of 2009-2010. Had they taken their time, pitched the bill and worked across the aisle for reasonable compromise, they still could have delivered a transformative bill that would have been palatable to moderate Republicans and independent voters. They shot themselves in the foot with their "take no prisoners" approach, however, and created the tidal wave of public backlash. The reason getting Democrats and Republicans to "work out a solution" is because Democrats are aliens. They have come to earth, with no appreciation of its heritage or what makes it a good place to live except its resources, they want to plunder those resources and give them to another planet, they see themselves as our betters, they seek to be our masters. Republicans are the ones telling E.T. to go home and keep his hands off or, as Randy Quaid memorable told the aliens in Independence Day, "up yours!" When one group says "gimme!" and the other says "hands off!" there isn't much room for compromise. Republicans and Democrats see the problem itself very differently. Democrats see a lack of government intervention as a problem. Republicans see government intervention as the problem. Where's the common ground in that? This is why we have elections, so the voters can decide which side they agree with more.

  4. #24
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,647

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The biggest problem in healthcare is layers upon layers of bureaucracy on the federal level, that being said the worst thing possible would be to set in in stone by amendment. The best possible thing to do would be to strip out years of ridiculous overregulation and remand much of the coverage and health standards back to the states where they belong.
    I would actually do the opposite. The healthcare industry is woefully underregulated... or at least underregulated in the wrong areas. I would take away most of the coverage and standards from the states and give it to the federal government so that there starts to be some uniformity, consistency, and ease of transferring coverage.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #25
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Goldsboro,PA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,595
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    I still do not understand the how and why our Constitution can be involved with health care. When the Constitution was written, there simply was no such thing as health care; hospitals were in their infancy; life was totally different way back then....
    I favor a health care plan that benefits the masses and that solves problems.....the emergency room for one....
    Health care should be socialized
    We need something akin to that of the advanced European nations....how many years are they more advanced than us ????
    Its ludicrous to tie health care into a document written in the "dark ages"...

  6. #26
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    I oppose Obamacare immensely. I do not think that anyone should be mandated by the government to purchase a private product/service as a condition of living/being a citizen of a country. It is something I would definitely have expected more from the right than the left. (And if this offends anyone, then maybe the Republicans shouldn't have come up with the idea of it first, at least for this country. Many Republicans would say that it was a "personal responsibility" issue, before Obamacare came out fully anyway.)

    I definitely don't believe that trying to make it Constitutional would be better. It would make it worse, in fact, since we would have to repeal the Amendment before we could implement any better plan.

    I want a UHC system put in place. That would have been much better.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #27
    Advisor Blue Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    01-21-15 @ 06:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    426

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    I only support healthcare initiatives on the state level. The last thing needed is another addition to the bloated national bureaucracy that will fiscally run itself into the ground. The national debt does not need any encouragement to grow larger.
    My family is more important than my party.
    -Zell Miller

  8. #28
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    05-01-14 @ 03:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    12,879

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    If it were passed as an amendment to the US Constitution I would accept its legitimacy. I would also leave the United States permanently and rescind my US Citizenship if that were to happen.

  9. #29
    Student Blackstone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    05-21-17 @ 08:40 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    218

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    I still do not understand the how and why our Constitution can be involved with health care. When the Constitution was written, there simply was no such thing as health care; hospitals were in their infancy; life was totally different way back then....
    I favor a health care plan that benefits the masses and that solves problems.....the emergency room for one....
    Health care should be socialized
    We need something akin to that of the advanced European nations....how many years are they more advanced than us ????
    Its ludicrous to tie health care into a document written in the "dark ages"...
    While life was without its Playstations, iPods and Droid Razors in 1787, life was pretty much the same. People worked in order to provide food, shelter and clothing for their family. Health care was much different two hundred years ago, but the concept was the same. Hygienic practices and a lack of risky behavior lent itself towards a healthier,longer life. People received the medical attention they could afford. Just like people ate the best food they could afford, wore the best clothes they could afford or possessed the best luxuries they could afford. Doctors used their own discretion in whether or not to provide free care to individuals. The reason our Founding Fathers didn't fabricate a right to health care and codify it in our Constitution is because they correctly recognized that individuals do not have a right to receive free (or "low cost") healthcare, nor does government have the right to mandate the purchase of any good or service by an individual. Such a mandate would have doomed the ratification efforts of the Federalists. In fact, the Founders specifically left such decisions to the states by ratifying the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution as the final and, James Madison believed, most important piece of the Bill of Rights. The U.S. Congress has not empowered to deal with health care, not because health care didn't exist in 1787, but because the Founders properly understood that it was an issue best dealt with on a state-by-state basis. If the people of Massachusetts wanted a law providing that all doctors must provide their services to any individual whose life was threatened, regardless of that person's ability to pay the doctor for his time and services, Massachusetts was able to pass such legislation at any time in its history. If New York wanted to require that all its residents be required to see a doctor once a year for a check-up, it could have done that. Had North Carolina deemed it necessary to tax its citizens in order to pay for amputation procedures for poor people, let's say, there was nothing stopping it. No such laws existed at the time of our Founding, not because we lived in some "dark ages" but because the people in government understood that it wasn't government's role to do such things and that liberty, not luxury, was a citizen's birthright.

    Times have changed, although human nature and right and wrong have not. The Founders bequeathed to us a mechanism for altering the Constitution which we have rarely deemed necessary to use. Of course over the past eighty years in particular the progressive mindset seeping into our judicial system has rendered the amendment process less necessary given how frequently original intent is rejected as the basis of judicial review. Be that as it may, in order to make Obamacare constitutional all one has to do is get two-thirds of both houses of Congress to recommend an amendment to the states, where 38 or more states must ratify it in order for it to take effect. That's "how...our Constitution can be involved in health care".

    If you think Europe is more "advanced" than the United States, I would ask when you are planning to move to that utopia.

  10. #30
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Something can be better without being Utopia. It's a false argument to suggest that trying to improve is living in a Utopian fanasty.

    As for health care reform, we'll see what the courts say.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •