View Poll Results: Would you approve of the individual mandate if it were passed as an amendment?

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  • Yes

    3 7.32%
  • No

    37 90.24%
  • Possibly/Other

    1 2.44%
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Thread: To those against Obamacare -

  1. #11
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There is a discussion there, but this is the wrong place to have it.
    I don't see why.

    Clearly, my point is valid, about Obamacare”being a “solution that does nothing to solve the problem it was purported to address, and which, in fact, can only make it much, much worse. How is this not relevant to this thread?
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  2. #12
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertz View Post
    Assuming you are against the 'individual mandate' clause, would you support it if it were instead passed as an Amendment to the constitution?
    No. Not only is forcing American citizens to buy health insurance from for profit companies fundamentally wrong, it is costly, a handout to the pharmaceutical and insurance industries, it is impractical, and it provides the incentive for smaller businesses to drop their employees health plans all together. Almost a third of private-sector employers will drop their employee health insurance coverage when Obamacare comes online in 2014.

    The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that only about 7 percent of employees currently covered by employer-sponsored insurance (ESI) will have to switch to subsidized-exchange policies in 2014. However, our early-2011 survey of more than 1,300 employers across industries, geographies, and employer sizes, as well as other proprietary research, found that reform will provoke a much greater response. More information about the survey methodology is available on the McKinsey & Company Web site.
    • Overall, 30 percent of employers will definitely or probably stop offering ESI in the years after 2014.
    • Among employers with a high awareness of reform, this proportion increases to more than 50 percent, and upward of 60 percent will pursue some alternative to traditional ESI.
    • At least 30 percent of employers would gain economically from dropping coverage even if they completely compensated employees for the change through other benefit offerings or higher salaries.
    • Contrary to what many employers assume, more than 85 percent of employees would remain at their jobs even if their employer stopped offering ESI, although about 60 percent would expect increased compensation.

    How US health care reform will affect employee benefits - McKinsey Quarterly - Health Care - Strategy & Analysis

  3. #13
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    No government should mandate the purchase of a good or service. Amending the constitutional would only make such legislation legal at the federal level. Romneycare in Massachusetts is perfectly constitutional, but it was still a bad idea. Legally permissible or not, individual mandates are bad government.

    As for the idea that some "solutions" actually worsen the problem - which Obamacare certainly does - a big reason that such remedies are such bad medicine is because they often start with an inaccurate diagnosis. Obamacare starts from an incorrect premise: that the market doesn't work and more government intervention is needed. The opposite is, in fact, true; government intervention is the problem and more free market solutions are the solution.
    Last edited by Blackstone; 11-30-11 at 09:21 PM.

  4. #14
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Not sure I understand the question. If one is against it, what difference does it make if it's an amendment or merely a law? Being an amendment only means it's legally enforceable.

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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I kinda fall on the fence on Obamacare in that I think it was better than doing nothing, but that it was far from ideal. Since I am not really "against" Obamacare however I won't vote in your poll and mess up your results. However....

    I tend to oppose amending the constitution for minor things or passing political fads. I think health care reform can be done without amending the constitution and would oppose such an amendment.
    So I guess you think it's entirely appropriate for any congress and the president to unilaterally decide what are new Rights. Who needs a Bill or Rights when any legislature can make up whatever Rights they think will buy them votes. I can see it now.....everybody should be forced to buy Internet accesss or be fined so that all poor people can have free service.
    I love the smell of burning moonbat in the morning.

  6. #16
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Not sure I understand the question. If one is against it, what difference does it make if it's an amendment or merely a law? Being an amendment only means it's legally enforceable.
    I understood the question to ask whether opponents of Obamacare oppose the law solely on constitutional grounds. Falling under the purview of an appropriate constitutional amendment would also give Obamacare the advantage of weathering legal challenges through the judicial system, something that is uncertain at this point given a Supreme Court which includes a primary Obamacare advocate.
    Last edited by Blackstone; 11-30-11 at 09:39 PM.

  7. #17
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    I personally prefer a UHC system through taxation instead of the individual mandate system. If someone wants extra care, they can buy private health insurance as well and go to private hospitals. Like Redress, I did not vote because the title says, "To those against Obamacare".
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-30-11 at 09:46 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I kinda fall on the fence on Obamacare in that I think it was better than doing nothing, but that it was far from ideal. Since I am not really "against" Obamacare however I won't vote in your poll and mess up your results. However....

    I tend to oppose amending the constitution for minor things or passing political fads. I think health care reform can be done without amending the constitution and would oppose such an amendment.
    If it ain't broke. Don't fix it. The health insurance industry needed to be adjusted, not fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I personally prefer a UHC system through taxation instead of the individual mandate system. If someone wants extra care, they can buy private health insurance as well and go to private hospitals. Like Redress, I did not vote because the title says, "To those against Obamacare".
    Yeah, that's part the reason they need us to bail them out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #20
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    Re: To those against Obamacare -

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If it ain't broke. Don't fix it. The health insurance industry needed to be adjusted, not fixed.
    I think it was last year Don posted a thread about the request for reimbursement increases submitted by the AMA or whoever does it and the numbers where scarey. The system was broken.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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