View Poll Results: Am I being politically correct in the example given?

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  • Yes, that is PC

    20 46.51%
  • No, that is not PC

    14 32.56%
  • Maybe, there is not enough information

    8 18.60%
  • I have no idea

    1 2.33%
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Thread: Politically Correct?

  1. #221
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It is just about people being upset about labels that describe them being mainstreamed in a negative way... and that is the problem. That will never change. You call a guy you don't respect a retard... then it is special needs... then it is mentally handicapped... it is already an insult to use the most modern term mentally challenged. What is next?

    ...and I am not sure what you meant by the part from "except" on...
    "except" differs in name calling from actual discriminating actions. I couldn't get work because of those factors and felt it was unfair. But words unlike sticks and stones don't hurt as much.

  2. #222
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    "except" differs in name calling from actual discriminating actions. I couldn't get work because of those factors and felt it was unfair. But words unlike sticks and stones don't hurt as much.
    Oh... gotchya. I thought you were talking to me with this part, "just pisses you off because it's unfair" and it seemed strange. You were talking about you and "in general". It WOULD piss (you, me, people) off since it is unfair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  3. #223
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Standing in line at the bank. I doubt any of us have a sound and logical thought process about it. We see the line and get in it. Who says, every time they enter into the bank, I am making a conscious choice to stand in line knowing that I could walk to the front or stand outside the rope and still expect others to know and respoect my place in line, etc etc.
    People don't need conscious sound and logical thought processes in order to engage in choice making. In fact, very few people do engage in sound, logical thinking prior to making choices. That doesn't mean they aren't making choices, though. It just means they aren't fully aware of their thought processes.

  4. #224
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    People don't need conscious sound and logical thought processes in order to engage in choice making. In fact, very few people do engage in sound, logical thinking prior to making choices. That doesn't mean they aren't making choices, though. It just means they aren't fully aware of their thought processes.
    Yeah... but that is conforming. I might have muddled what I was saying. Choice and conforming can go hand in hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  5. #225
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Yeah... but that is conforming. I might have muddled what I was saying. Choice and conforming can go hand in hand.
    Yes, it's making the choice to conform. People are always making a choice to conform because there is always the non-conforming alternative option. Everyone is aware that an alternative exists, even if they don't feel that it is a viable option.

    Even the act of conforming to laws is a choice. I am conforming to societies rules right now by not murdering anyone. I am making the choice to not murder, even if it is not a conscious choice. I could easily step outside of my house, knock on my neighbor's door and kill him, if I was so inclined. Nobody is forcing me not to.

    Will there be ramifications for me if I make the choice to kill my neighbor? Absolutely, and rightfully so. I could lose my freedom, or even my own life for making such a choice. But the choice exists. The existence of ramifications for a non-conformist choice is not the same thing as forcing someone to make the conforming choice. Every single time someone engages in a non-conformist behavior they prove this to be true.

    I realized this 25 years ago in grade school. Teachers told me that I had to do my homework. I did not want to do my homework, though. At first, I whined about how unfair it was that I had to conform or be punished, but one day I realized that their punishment really meant nothing to me. So I'd get bad grades. Big deal. I didn't care if I got bad grades for something as silly as not doing my homework. I felt that acing the tests was all that I should have to do, and if they disagreed, then they disagreed. So be it.

    The key is that I learned that there is really no such thing as reward or punishment when it comes to conformity or non-conformity. There are only choices and the results of those choices.

    Using my school example: I was faced with the choice to not do my homework or the choice to receive passing grades. Ultimately, I based my choice on which of the two I wanted more. In my case, I wanted to not do my homework more than I wanted passing grades. That was the choice I made.

    With Political Correctness, the same is true. We have to weigh our options of speaking freely without worrying about what anyone thinks or not being ostracized. We choose which one of those things we value more and make our choice based on that.

    With murder, it's the same thing. We weigh our desire of being able to murder someone else against our desire to not risk life in prison or the death penalty.

    In each case, if our desire to not conform outweighs our desire to have the "positive outcomes" of conformity, we will choose the path of non-conformity. If our desire to not conform doesn't outweigh our desire for the 'positive outcomes' of conformity, we will choose the path of conformity.

    No matter what, we are choosing the path with the outcomes that we desire most. To claim that we are forced to make a certain decision is to ignore the fact that we are choosing our preferred path. Whenever we have the balls to face the negative outcomes of non-conformity, we take the path of non-conformity. When we don't have the balls to face those negative outcomes, we don't.

    Most of the time, these choices are so automatic that we aren't even consciously aware of them. What this actually means is that our desire to engage in the non-conforming behavior is so low that it doesn't even register consciously. For example, I am not having difficulty choosing to not kill someone right now because I have absolutely no desire to kill someone right now. My desire to remain free and alive, though, remains quite high. Therefore, no conscious debate is occurring within me right now because it is such a blow-out victory for conformity that it occurs entirely within my sub-conscious. That, and the fact that conforming behavior is also a default state which requires absolutely no effort to achieve.

    But let's use a PC example. I don't use the word "nigger" most of the time because my desire to use the word is usually very, very low, while my desire to receive the positive outcomes of not using that word are usually fairly high.

    But I just used that word above because my desire to use it in that context was very high (because actually using it instead of sugarcoating it allowed me to illustrate my point very effectively), while my desire to receive the positive outcomes of not using that word was lower than usual. (This is because I considered making the point more important).

    If I am ostracized for using that word, then so be it. I do not fear the possible outcomes of my choice. Obviously my desire to not conform was higher than my desire for the positive outcomes of conformity, in this case.

    Ultimately, that is my point. I don't feel that someone who doesn't have the balls to face the consequences of non-conformity has legitimate grounds to be non-conformist. Being a true non-conformist requires courage. Those who are too cowardly to put themselves out there have no business even entertaining the idea of non-conformity.

  6. #226
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    Tucker I'm not going to answer all your parsing and suppositions of my comments because frankly it sounds like a lot of gobbledegook too me. I think you miss the forest through the trees.
    Definition Conform:
    1. Comply with rules, standards, or laws.
    2. (of a person) Behave according to socially acceptable conventions or standards: "the pressure to conform".

    You can say choice, coward and victim-mentality till the rocks fall out of your ears but you still have conformed. Whether by choice or pressure we all have done it.

    People don't need conscious sound and logical thought processes in order to engage in choice making. In fact, very few people do engage in sound, logical thinking prior to making choices. That doesn't mean they aren't making choices, though. It just means they aren't fully aware of their thought processes.
    Here's your quote that makes my point. People are rarely fully aware of all our choices, especially the ones we are conforming too. It's an almost mindless process sometimes. I'm not a wizard with grammar or the sharpest bulb in the tool shed but I know when someones using circle logic,, duhhh. I have an overly educated friend with 15yrs of college who likes to grade my emails for grammatical errors. He thinks its funny. So when we're in the company of others I mispronounce words on purpose when telling a story so he'll continually correct me to look smart. Then I ask him "can you tell me the point of my story"? He ends up staring at me blankly because he was too focused on my mispronunciation. My point Tucker even an idiot can make you look stupid when they pull your pants down.. he's showing his heiny

    You have brains and manners Bodhisattva,, bravo!

  7. #227
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Tucker I'm not going to answer all your parsing and suppositions of my comments because frankly it sounds like a lot of gobbledegook too me. I think you miss the forest through the trees.
    Ah, I see. So you are illiterate. If you want, I can rewrite it using simpler words so that you can understand it. I have a small child so I'm used to dumbing down my language.



    Definition Conform:
    1. Comply with rules, standards, or laws.
    2. (of a person) Behave according to socially acceptable conventions or standards: "the pressure to conform".

    You can say choice, coward and victim-mentality till the rocks fall out of your ears but you still have conformed. Whether by choice or pressure we all have done it.

    The issue is not the definition of conform. It is the definition of force.


    Here's your quote that makes my point. People are rarely fully aware of all our choices, especially the ones we are conforming too. It's an almost mindless process sometimes. I'm not a wizard with grammar or the sharpest bulb in the tool shed but I know when someones using circle logic,, duhhh. I have an overly educated friend with 15yrs of college who likes to grade my emails for grammatical errors. He thinks its funny. So when we're in the company of others I mispronounce words on purpose when telling a story so he'll continually correct me to look smart. Then I ask him "can you tell me the point of my story"? He ends up staring at me blankly because he was too focused on my mispronunciation. My point Tucker even an idiot can make you look stupid when they pull your pants down.. he's showing his heiny
    I like to pretend I'm retarded too, sometimes. That way, when I actually do something stupid I can cravenly pretend I did it on purpose so that I don't have to admit that I made a mistake. ASk Bodhisattva, I never admit to making mistakes.

  8. #228
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    You are pretty sharp Tuck for picking up on the tard aspect I'll concede you made some good points but I was never really pushing for forced to conform. I meant it in the context of "pressure" but I think you really knew that. Like a young pine tree you'll learn to bend with the wind instead of break like a stiff old oak. I don't conform out of fear as much as out of desire for peace. I grew up with nasty rednecks that would beat on you like a screen door in a hurricane, so I learned a little about conformity. I think we become more aware of PC when it's trivial, annoying or downright absurd and that's the stuff I feel inclined to not conform with. But then again I don't poke a hornets nest for fun either, so live and let live.

  9. #229
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You are pretty sharp Tuck for picking up on the tard aspect I'll concede you made some good points but I was never really pushing for forced to conform. I meant it in the context of "pressure" but I think you really knew that. Like a young pine tree you'll learn to bend with the wind instead of break like a stiff old oak. I don't conform out of fear as much as out of desire for peace. I grew up with nasty rednecks that would beat on you like a screen door in a hurricane, so I learned a little about conformity. I think we become more aware of PC when it's trivial, annoying or downright absurd and that's the stuff I feel inclined to not conform with. But then again I don't poke a hornets nest for fun either, so live and let live.
    If you meant pressure rather than force, then I don't have any issue with your position. There is pressure to conform in society, but ultimately that's just a part of living in a society.

    The reason I go hard after the idea of it being forced, though, is because i think that that word implies victimization, and I believe that we have a major problem in our society with the victim-mentality, right now. Since I now see that you were not trying to imply that, we have no disagreement.

  10. #230
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    Re: Politically Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    If you meant pressure rather than force, then I don't have any issue with your position. There is pressure to conform in society, but ultimately that's just a part of living in a society.

    The reason I go hard after the idea of it being forced, though, is because i think that that word implies victimization, and I believe that we have a major problem in our society with the victim-mentality, right now. Since I now see that you were not trying to imply that, we have no disagreement.
    So that's the bee that got stuck in your bonnet. I didn't think you were one of those I'll pound ya into submission types. I agree we're rarely forced to do anything, even obey the law. Though I'll leave you with a wee bit of parting advice, my father once told me "see it from their side or walk a mile in their shoes". To distinguish between a true victim and someone leveraging the system or playing you give an unbiased and true look at their situation and put yourself there. I bet you'll see a picture you never knew was there.

    Stare at the four dots in the center of this picture for the count of 30, then look away to a white wall or piece of paper. Be patient and wait a few seconds then tell me what you saw?
    If you've already seen this then you know the point.

    Attachment 67119877

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