View Poll Results: Should an applicants race be a deciding factor for admission to a university?

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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #521
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    I ran across this Columbus Dispatch Newspaper article from Feb2011 at AmRen's website.

    Why is "skin color" still a qualifying factor for college admission in the 21st century?

    I suspect these policies are a whole lot more wide spread than just Ohio State and Miami universities?

    I thought liberals and the democrat party were suppose to be champions of the victims of racism?

    This is a yes or no/black or white answer with absolutely no grey area to hide behind.

    You either condone and defend racism OR you speak up and publicly denounce it here and now.

    I believe it is safe to assume that any poster who is afraid to cast a vote most likely condones racism.

    I have chosen the username to register with your vote, option...Lets find out who walks the talk.
    I think not just every university or college should look like a cross section of America but every public or private school should be representative of all Americans and then and only then we will be starting to really address discrimination

  2. #522
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    I simply don't see how you can consider race and then claim there is no racial discrimination if race is a factor. "Deciding factor" is nonsensical. Either race made a difference in the choice, or it didn't. I have certainly read about Bakke and heard that before, but just now I realize that.
    According to the courts, it can't make the difference.

    But that's not possible. You said there were certain minimums, yes, but that still doesn't mean that race puts one candidate ahead of another that may be less qualified in other areas.
    Agin, it depends on what you call qualifications. Donating money to the school counts, and is legal. We could argue that put someone less qualified in. But, legally so. All the school cares about is that they made that minimum. Other than that, the rest is, as I keep saying, more subjective and more about what that student brings to the school. Money? Talent? personality? Diversity? All largely subjective and has nothing to do with being qualified. What's more, as students show me every semester, that if you were with a group trying to decide between eight students, the one with the most objective high scores would not be picked. In fact, in years of doing this, she has never been picked.

    So, this notion of most qualified is nonsense. It has never been about anything objective.


    No "real" loss of white students? What's that mean? Every single white student who would have been admitted without an AA policy was admitted with one? I seriously doubt that. Schools didn't just add more slots and give them to blacks. They had to reject some whites to make room for blacks. That's to be expected anyway in a merit-based system, of course, as discrimination ends. But it means using race as a factor to favor blacks has the exact same effect as using race as a factor to favor whites - discrimination, and harm to the victim. Maybe just a little harm, but harm.
    It emans white students have the same percentage or more than they've ever had. No statisitcal numbers show any drop. The only real change has been more women doing more and better than males.

    Again, what merit? If GPAs and SATs mean little, and they don't, what merit are you looking for?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #523
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    According to the courts, it can't make the difference.
    Then how can AA possibly happen?

    Agin, it depends on what you call qualifications.
    It doesn't if they are all equal other than race. Whatever they are, if they are the same and race is the only difference, then race is the deciding factor. If not, it isn't.

    All the school cares about is that they made that minimum. Other than that, the rest is, as I keep saying, more subjective and more about what that student brings to the school. Money? Talent? personality? Diversity? All largely subjective and has nothing to do with being qualified.
    "Qualified" means you are chosen to be in the school. That's the very definition of qualified. It's not just the minimum.

    So, this notion of most qualified is nonsense. It has never been about anything objective.
    It doesn't matter. All that matters is that race is not one of those factors. Use whatever objective or subjective qualifications you want. Just don't use race, otherwise that's racial discrimination.

    It emans white students have the same percentage or more than they've ever had. No statisitcal numbers show any drop. The only real change has been more women doing more and better than males.
    So racial diversity isn't happening? Or simply more slots are opening, and being filled by blacks? Those are the only two mathematical possibilities.

    Again, what merit? If GPAs and SATs mean little, and they don't, what merit are you looking for?
    Seriously? You don't choose students based on some kind of merit? Merit simply means "the things that make a good student." This whole argument is about whether race should be considered merit or not. Considering that racial discrimination is illegal, I'd say that's a pretty strong indication that it shouldn't be. To do so is simply racial discrimination lite.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Then how can AA possibly happen?
    Because the laws that make up AA are more about showing you do not discriminate. Nothing requires race be used at all.

    It doesn't if they are all equal other than race. Whatever they are, if they are the same and race is the only difference, then race is the deciding factor. If not, it isn't.
    There's nothing equal about it reardless of if race is used or not. Wealthy are often much more favored; however, sometimes where you live matters, for example.


    "Qualified" means you are chosen to be in the school. That's the very definition of qualified. It's not just the minimum.
    Any any reason they want means you qualify.

    It doesn't matter. All that matters is that race is not one of those factors. Use whatever objective or subjective qualifications you want. Just don't use race, otherwise that's racial discrimination.
    And that is exactly what most the laws say, and is why schools largely lose when challenged.

    So racial diversity isn't happening? Or simply more slots are opening, and being filled by blacks? Those are the only two mathematical possibilities.
    Statistically, no it isn't really happening. And while there are more slots, there is little evidence anyone is actually reaching diversity.


    Seriously? You don't choose students based on some kind of merit? Merit simply means "the things that make a good student." This whole argument is about whether race should be considered merit or not. Considering that racial discrimination is illegal, I'd say that's a pretty strong indication that it shouldn't be. To do so is simply racial discrimination lite.
    I said not SATs and GPAs. These are mostly just used to eliminate low end candidates and shrink the number the school has to look at. Merit they look at is much more subjective.

    I don't know anyone actually arguing race is to be used as merit. More the school says they see some value in diversity and would like a more divwerse campus. I even see a number of students asking for that. The only question is how to do that legally.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Because the laws that make up AA are more about showing you do not discriminate. Nothing requires race be used at all.
    You're still doing it. AA refers to the admission policies of schools, not just to a law.

    There's nothing equal about it reardless of if race is used or not. Wealthy are often much more favored; however, sometimes where you live matters, for example.
    So the fact that wealth discrimination happens justifies racial discrimination?

    Statistically, no it isn't really happening. And while there are more slots, there is little evidence anyone is actually reaching diversity.
    So what's the point?
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You're still doing it. AA refers to the admission policies of schools, not just to a law.
    But they must obey the law. This is an important point. They can't just break the law. And have to be dealt with legally. You can just say please stop it.

    So the fact that wealth discrimination happens justifies racial discrimination?
    Nope, but I do find there to be a little hypocracy in that. Qualifications matter to some only when race is involved.


    So what's the point?
    I don't know. I think there's a lot of handwringing over nothing, but I have no problem with people asking they follow the law. But it is a legal issue.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    But they must obey the law. This is an important point. They can't just break the law. And have to be dealt with legally. You can just say please stop it.
    The law says you can't discriminate based on race. I'm saying it's nonsensical that you can use race as a factor without doing that, even if you declare that it's not "the deciding factor."

    Nope, but I do find there to be a little hypocracy in that. Qualifications matter to some only when race is involved.
    Sure, but the fact remains that racial discrimination is now illegal, and you don't disagree with that.

    I don't know. I think there's a lot of handwringing over nothing, but I have no problem with people asking they follow the law. But it is a legal issue.
    It says you can't discriminate by race. I think any school that used race as a factor in admissions, only in favor of whites and against blacks, would be instantly found guilty of racial discrimination. You were discussing hypocrisy?
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    The law says you can't discriminate based on race. I'm saying it's nonsensical that you can use race as a factor without doing that, even if you declare that it's not "the deciding factor."
    Imagine being in the school's shoes, especially as they keep losing.


    Sure, but the fact remains that racial discrimination is now illegal, and you don't disagree with that.
    I do not disagree, right.

    It says you can't discriminate by race. I think any school that used race as a factor in admissions, only in favor of whites and against blacks, would be instantly found guilty of racial discrimination. You were discussing hypocrisy?
    Against the law, yes. But we still have this problem of both schools and students wanting diversity and how to go about it. They will keep trying to find a way to do it within the law.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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