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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #511
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    What disconnect? The disconnect where Blackdog lies and distorts other people's posts and then lies about his own responses to those posts? Since that's the only disconnect we were talking about, you clearly haven't.
    The disconnect was between Boo Radley talking about AA as if it were nothing but a law or government policy -- which it began as -- vs. the rest of us talking about how AA now is a general description of voluntary school admission and hiring policies all over the place.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post

    Please point out where I said this? I said they were lowered (as the articles I posted pointed out) to admit more minority's.
    Since the rest of your post is repetition of the old lies, distortions and false memories, I figured I'd just deal with this new one.

    You asked this question in response to me asking:
    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Which law advocates or requires colleges to lower standards and discriminate? Be specific.
    Well, the reason I asked you this question was because of this line of conversation:

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Well, we were talking about AA as a whole, but then YOU starting saying that you didn't think "the law" should exist. BR's point has been that "the law" doesn't require or advocate colleges to do the things that you've been complaining about like "lowering standards" and "discriminating". And he's right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Only if you ignore reality like he does.
    Let me write it out for you: I say BR is right that the law doesn't require or advocate colleges to "lower standards" or "discriminate" and then you reply, "only if you ignore reality". SO again, which law advocates or requires colleges to lower standards or discriminate?

    Please answer the question this time instead of avoiding it by distorting past conversations as you have continually done this entire thread.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    The disconnect was between Boo Radley talking about AA as if it were nothing but a law or government policy -- which it began as -- vs. the rest of us talking about how AA now is a general description of voluntary school admission and hiring policies all over the place.
    The problem with that is the Blackdog also referred to AA as "a law" in the past, so his problem with BR saying that is just BS.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The problem with that is the Blackdog also referred to AA as "a law" in the past, so his problem with BR saying that is just BS.
    Okay, I didn't say I had figured ALL of your dispute out. No biggie.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Okay, I didn't say I had figured ALL of your dispute out. No biggie.
    No problem. BD did say he wanted the law done away with, which is the bone of our contention.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Right. So is race being used as a factor, or not? Does it matter to admissions, or not?
    I suspect it is not being used much at the moment as they work through this. But the court said it cannot be a deciding factor. Schools don't want to be sued or to lose in court, so it presents a problem for them. That is why they are still trying to work though how to do this diverity thingie.


    How can it be possible for an AA program not to hurt whites though?

    If a black with lower qualifications otherwise is admitted due to his race, a white who otherwise would be admitted must be excluded. Unless race is being used as a factor to choose between students that are otherwise completely equal, of course.

    It's hard to frame this as not a zero-sum game, even if it is a murky one.
    That's it, no one has lower qualifications. I have tried hard to point this out to you. You look at one objective factor, and schools don't. They have a long list of things they look for, and grades is but a very small part of that. There is also no likelihood that any two would be completely equal. They rank want they are looking for most, giving more value to somethings over others. and objective things like SATs and GPAs are usually relatively low and dropped after the intitial cut off. Once everyone left has met that standard, it is really meaningless.

    But, minorites simply have not overrun schools, the admissions are largely quite small, and with cooleges growing, there has been no real loss of white students, and no statisitical harm that cna be shown. It really is a lot of whiniing over nothing. In fact, with no preferences, there really should be more inroads made than have been. So it would be a better question to ask why there hasn't been.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Okay, I didn't say I had figured ALL of your dispute out. No biggie.
    Cool. I'm sorry if I was a bit hostile. It was misdirected.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I suspect it is not being used much at the moment as they work through this. But the court said it cannot be a deciding factor. Schools don't want to be sued or to lose in court, so it presents a problem for them. That is why they are still trying to work though how to do this diverity thingie.
    I simply don't see how you can consider race and then claim there is no racial discrimination if race is a factor. "Deciding factor" is nonsensical. Either race made a difference in the choice, or it didn't. I have certainly read about Bakke and heard that before, but just now I realize that.

    That's it, no one has lower qualifications. I have tried hard to point this out to you.
    But that's not possible. You said there were certain minimums, yes, but that still doesn't mean that race puts one candidate ahead of another that may be less qualified in other areas.

    You look at one objective factor, and schools don't. They have a long list of things they look for, and grades is but a very small part of that. There is also no likelihood that any two would be completely equal. They rank want they are looking for most, giving more value to somethings over others. and objective things like SATs and GPAs are usually relatively low and dropped after the intitial cut off. Once everyone left has met that standard, it is really meaningless.

    But, minorites simply have not overrun schools, the admissions are largely quite small, and with cooleges growing, there has been no real loss of white students, and no statisitical harm that cna be shown. It really is a lot of whiniing over nothing. In fact, with no preferences, there really should be more inroads made than have been. So it would be a better question to ask why there hasn't been.
    No "real" loss of white students? What's that mean? Every single white student who would have been admitted without an AA policy was admitted with one? I seriously doubt that. Schools didn't just add more slots and give them to blacks. They had to reject some whites to make room for blacks. That's to be expected anyway in a merit-based system, of course, as discrimination ends. But it means using race as a factor to favor blacks has the exact same effect as using race as a factor to favor whites - discrimination, and harm to the victim. Maybe just a little harm, but harm.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Cool. I'm sorry if I was a bit hostile. It was misdirected.
    No hostility detected.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No problem. BD did say he wanted the law done away with, which is the bone of our contention.
    Yes this is true but unlike what theplaydrive assumed I thought you knew what I meant. If you look at my posts you can see by the evidence and my statements what I was saying. Theplaydrive is just playing a semantics game. I say this because even after I explained he would not accept it and basically said I lied contrary to my posts. I am talking the large picture, not just a single law or two, I want the whole system done away with. Unlike your use of the law, you said point blank you were talking about the law, I then clarified I am not talking about a law or the law.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 12-07-11 at 11:07 PM.
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