View Poll Results: Should an applicants race be a deciding factor for admission to a university?

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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #491
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They said there were voluntary efforts, no legally mandated ones.
    Not relevant.

    And that quotas, set asides, and points that made race the deciding factor could not be used.
    But still, a factor.

    Nothing mandates by law that anyone be accepted or hire who isn't qualified.
    Your problem is that you claim that there's this single level where you're either "qualified" or "unqualified." But that's crap, because you're still making admission decisions after that by considering further factors, since you still need to whittle people down. "Qualified" means making the first round, otherwise you'd let them all in.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, that is not what they said. They said there were voluntary efforts, no legally mandated ones. And that quotas, set asides, and points that made race the deciding factor could not be used. I highlighted those for you. Nothing mandates by law that anyone be accepted or hire who isn't qualified.
    I give up. I don't know if you are just that convinced race is not being used as a qualifier despite everything, or you just don't want to be wrong. Either way I am bored now, lol.

    I will just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
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  3. #493
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Not relevant.



    But still, a factor.



    Your problem is that you claim that there's this single level where you're either "qualified" or "unqualified." But that's crap, because you're still making admission decisions after that by considering further factors, since you still need to whittle people down. "Qualified" means making the first round, otherwise you'd let them all in.
    relevent.

    Not a deciding factor.

    And not what I'm arguing at all. School set the bar. They say, we'll not look at anyone not above this line. Usually between 3.0 and 3.5. They cut everyone below that off and don't even look at their application. That is what I mean by a bulk cut off. Those people don't even get considered.

    Now after that, the SAT and ACT are no longer a factor. GPA's mean even less. So, you are left with other, more subjective criteria. The school usually has a list that it looks at, trying to see the entire person, and what they bring to the school. It has little to do with objective criteria like SATs and GPAs.

    If the school wants a diverse population, for whatever reason, they tend to seek ways to do that. But it is not mandated by law thet they do. In fact, the law offers more of an obsticle than anything else, by hindering how freely they can go after that diversity. If the use race, they will likely lose in court, and recent rullings show that.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    I give up. I don't know if you are just that convinced race is not being used as a qualifier despite everything, or you just don't want to be wrong. Either way I am bored now, lol.

    I will just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
    No. I'm arguing the law isn't the reason. And I showed that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not a deciding factor.
    That's a non-sensical statement though. Of course it's a factor in the decision. You may mean it's not the only factor, but if it's a factor, that means you use it as part of your decision.

    Either someone's race is making a difference in whether they get into a school, or it isn't.
    Last edited by misterman; 12-06-11 at 04:47 PM.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. I'm arguing the law isn't the reason. And I showed that.
    But none of us are talking about the law. We're talking about YOUR school's choices and policies and decisions you are making.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. I'm arguing the law isn't the reason. And I showed that.
    There is no law! It does not exist, I have shown that. I have shown what we are talking about it as a whole. CA has already ditched it and I assume more will coming up.

    You are arguing in defense of something by saying " it's the law" or "it's not part of AA" when by definition it is exactly that. you are arguing something that does not exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #498
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    There is no law! It does not exist, I have shown that.
    I assume he's referring to this U.S. Department of Labor - Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) - Facts on Executive Order 11246 Affirmative Action. There is also Kennedy's executive order: Executive Order 10925 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

    The terms "Affirmative Action" and "Equal Opportunity" originated from these orders. Colleges may develop their own methods of obeying these laws. The fact that you would even argue "there is no law" shows that you need to study AA a bit more. In fact, almost every university AA policy statement mentions how there polices exist because they have to follow THE LAW.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I assume he's referring to this U.S. Department of Labor - Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) - Facts on Executive Order 11246 — Affirmative Action. There is also Kennedy's executive order: Executive Order 10925 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

    The terms "Affirmative Action" and "Equal Opportunity" originated from these orders. Colleges may develop their own methods of obeying these laws. The fact that you would even argue "there is no law" shows that you need to study AA a bit more. In fact, almost every university AA policy statement mentions how there polices exist because they have to follow THE LAW.
    AA is not a law, it is a program governed by laws and a sires of executive orders , quite a few of them that overlap. It is not a single "law" that can be argued as Boo put it.

    The fact that you are still trying to pass it off as one single entity for the sake of argument (which had little to do with anyone argument no less) shows you still are clueless about what people were talking about.

    We are talking about AA as a whole, not just 1 all encompassing law that dos not exist as Boo tried to make it.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 12-06-11 at 07:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #500
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    AA is not a law, it is a program governed by laws and a sires of executive orders , quite a few of them that overlap. It is not a single "law" that can be argued as Boo put it.
    You obviously didn't read the post you just responded to because I posted two laws (or executive orders) not one, so it's clear that I don't think it's "a single law". I just posted them to clarify what BR is likely referring to.

    The fact that you are still trying to pass it off as one single entity for the sake of argument (which had little to do with anyone argument no less) shows you still are clueless about what people were talking about.
    I'm not trying to pass it off as a single entity. Not only did I post two laws in the post you just quoted and didn't read, in a response to BR, I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    However, you seem to be using AA to refer only to the law. AA is a term that refers to more than just the law. It also refers to the admissions policies themselves..
    But thanks for calling me clueless in spite of the fact that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

    We are talking about AA as a whole, not just 1 all encompassing law that dos not exist as Boo tried to make it.
    Well, we were talking about AA as a whole, but then YOU starting saying that you didn't think "the law" should exist. BR's point has been that "the law" doesn't require or advocate colleges to do the things that you've been complaining about like "lowering standards" and "discriminating". And he's right.

    And finally, while you seem to NOW have a problem with referring to AA as "a law", you didn't have a problem with it before:

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Just for clarity Boo and play, I do not mean to insult your intelligence or anything like that. I just seriously think it is an antiquated law that partly because of all the controversy around it, needs to go away because it really is no longer needed. It is not the 1950's anymore.
    I find your change of heart suspect. It reminds me of when you told me my response to your question was "an excuse" and then you changed your mind and said that I never even answered it. Interesting.

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