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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #451
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As AA calls for us to prove we are not discriminating, how can that not be helping? Remember, before the alw, racial discrimination was rampant. Now it isn't, and it is likley AA helped that a lot.
    AA, at least the kind that actually uses race as a factor in admission, is racial discrimination by definition.

    To not discriminate, you'd need to not use race as a factor.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    AA, at least the kind that actually uses race as a factor in admission, is racial discrimination by definition.

    To not discriminate, you'd need to not use race as a factor.
    If used in admissions, that isn't AA. AA has no call or mandate to use any such element as a factor. AA only calls on institutions to show they do not discrminate. Again, it is colleges that want diversity and not AA or the law.

    BTW, race is not the only form of discrmination there is. And most discrimination is leagal. Only race, sex, and religion are specifically prohibited.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Of course it's about "having racial discrimination." Racial discrimination is simply an act, not a motivation. The school may view it as "good" discrimination, but that doesn't make it not discrimination.

    The school may value diversity. That may be a good thing for the school, and for the students it accepts, and for society. It does mean that certain students are denied entry to the school due to their race though. That is the unavoidable consequence, even if it is muddled by the complexity of admissions policies that consider other factors too. A policy that considers race makes a choice based on race, thereby excluding someone who didn't have the right race to meet the policy.
    Again, a school issue and not an AA issue. Schools value all kinds of things that are not objective. Money. Location. Parentage.

    And frankly, few to no white folks are denied entry because of seeking diversity. The numbers just don't support the claim that whites are being denied entry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If used in admissions, that isn't AA.
    That's not true. Grutter v. Bollinger upheld using race in admissions as a constitutional form of Affirmative Action. It's certainly AA, it's just not government mandated AA.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    That's not true. Grutter v. Bollinger upheld using race in admissions as a constitutional form of Affirmative Action. It's certainly AA, it's just not government mandated AA.
    I linked that earlier. They said it could not be the determining factor, which is what I have been saying. And it is not AA demanding it, but schools seeking diversity on their own. Again, not the law mandating, but schools wanting soemthign and trying to find a legal way to do it. So, the law itself that is AA does not call for race to be used in admissions. It calls for schools and business to show they are not discriminating. This is my point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I linked that earlier. They said it could not be the determining factor, which is what I have been saying. And it is not AA demanding it, but schools seeking diversity on their own. Again, not the law mandating, but schools wanting soemthign and trying to find a legal way to do it. So, the law itself that is AA does not call for race to be used in admissions. It calls for schools and business to show they are not discriminating. This is my point.
    Yeah, the bold part is what I've emphasized as well in this thread. However, you seem to be using AA to refer only to the law. AA is a term that refers to more than just the law. It also refers to the admissions policies themselves.

    But as I'm writing this, I'm starting to realize that this doesn't really factor into the current topic of discussion as Blackdog said he had a problem with the law and the law doesn't have anything to do with the specific AA admissions policies created by colleges.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Yeah, the bold part is what I've emphasized as well in this thread. However, you seem to be using AA to refer only to the law. AA is a term that refers to more than just the law. It also refers to the admissions policies themselves.

    But as I'm writing this, I'm starting to realize that this doesn't really factor into the current topic of discussion as Blackdog said he had a problem with the law and the law doesn't have anything to do with the specific AA admissions policies created by colleges.
    I think it is wrongly used in those terms. It is not by definition AA, which is a law. I think people just wrongly connect the two. Schools, for their own reasons, want to add diverity to their schools. Some have more valid reasoning than others, but they tend to lose in court.

    My biggest problem with Blackdog, who wants the law changed, is that he makes leaps concerning cause and effect, and all without any real evidence.

    But I'll continue that with him.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You are wrong. It is not a fact. It's an opinion, and one you have not yet supported.

    As AA calls for us to prove we are not discriminating, how can that not be helping? Remember, before the alw, racial discrimination was rampant. Now it isn't, and it is likley AA helped that a lot.

    But what you're really upset about is schools want diversity. AA doesn't call for it. no law calls for it. But schools think it has some value. You want a law to say schools can't value that. That has nothing to do with AA, but schools.
    This is exactly what I mean, you say "you have not yet supported." I have supported it, you don't want to accept it because you say you don't have access to the information. One of the articles posted links to every source they used and you ignore it. So yes I have, and you still have shown nothing, nothing at all.

    Then you add something that is completely irrelevant. It is just another fallacy. What I want or not has nothing to do with this debate. Then to make such an asinine Ad Hominem just shows a weak position and even weaker argument.

    Are you even reading what I am saying?

    If we have "bigger problems" and I agree we do, why do we need to keep it??? Why do you argue to keep it? You have not given one valid reason to keep it yet? I have given multiple reasons it needs to go. - Blackdog
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think it is wrongly used in those terms. It is not by definition AA, which is a law. I think people just wrongly connect the two. Schools, for their own reasons, want to add diverity to their schools. Some have more valid reasoning than others, but they tend to lose in court.

    My biggest problem with Blackdog, who wants the law changed, is that he makes leaps concerning cause and effect, and all without any real evidence.

    But I'll continue that with him.
    No I don't want it "changed" I want it gone because it is no longer needed and is adding to the racial divide rather than helping. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

    What part of that are you not getting?

    I have posted evidence you have not. At the very best it is useless and at the most it is a determent. So why do we need it again?
    Last edited by Black Dog; 12-06-11 at 01:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #460
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No I don't want it "changed" I want it gone because it is no longer needed and is adding to the racial divide rather than helping. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

    What part of that are you not getting?
    As the law asks that we show we are not discirminating, exactly what about the law isn't needed?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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