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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #381
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Yeah, I know. Their admissions policy was ruled unconstitutional. That's the point. You can list that case along with all the other cases where such systems were ruled unconstiutional and it proves nothing because those policies are illegal and I'm not advocating illegal policies.
    I know you are not, I was pointing out you were wrong about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You were. You said, "You know as well as I do their are plenty of others. If I list them, will you just ignore them as well?" Since we were talking about a court case, it's clear that "plenty of others" referred to cases and as I said, those "plenty of other cases" don't do much.
    I was talking about the overall situation. Either you accept that or you don't. SO I don't care either way as I have clarified what I said. So either you can call me a liar or move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Moreover, you haven't "shown" anything. You listed laws against discrimination, SC cases that ruled illegal admissions processes illegal and then you declared that "we don't need AA".
    Exactly, if we have laws against discrimination, do we need affirmative action? You have still not answered that question. It is a simple yes or no.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Still no. You've proved that illegal policies were ruled illegal by the Supreme Court. This is a given.
    Still avoiding the question. Yes or no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #382
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You came into the thread to berate people who have different opinions.
    WRONG.

    I entered the thread in the hope of encountering an intelligent discussion.

    I'm not interested. As I said, four "landmark" cases do not prove how widespread an issue is. I've already told you the type of AA I support and it's the type that evaluates the wholeness of a student rather than just race alone (which is illegal) so why on Earth you keep trying to tell me how wrong something I do not support is is beyond me.
    Actually, I recall you saying something like:

    "Oh, well I don't support this scenario and I support AA because I don't think most colleges make decisions like this. I don't support quotas, I support choosing students according to what value they will add to the college and this is how I'm quite certain most colleges choose their students."

    Thus, while your intentions are all the best, your ignorance and naivete truly disturbing.

    I had been inclined to say that you should be ashamed of yourself, but now I believe that you really are the ingenue you seem to be. You have my sympathies.


    ...and to think that we never even got around to discussing the other half of Bollinger ]

    Moreover, "logic" is a poor substitute for actual evidence. Unless you have some kind of study that shows that type of AA that neither you nor I support is widespread, your posts remain irrelevant.
    Logic and sound inferences from the prior case history are more than enough to discuss the topic at hand in an intelligent manner. That being said, you can ease your mind on the strong possibility that even more "actual evidence" will avail with the next SCOTUS case on the subject.

  3. #383
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    interesting addition:



    “Academic mismatch” causes many students who are admitted under a substantial preference based on race, but who possess weaker academic skills, to fall behind. The consequences include especially high attrition rates from the sciences, and self-segregation in less-demanding classes, thereby reducing classroom diversity.

    Blacks are significantly more integrated across the University of California system than they were before the state eliminated racial preferences in 1996, thereby discouraging enrollment of underprepared minorities in the more elite institutions.

    Sander and Taylor report: “Research suggests a similar pattern nationally; scholars have found that the use of large racial preferences by elite colleges has the effect of reducing diversity at second-tier schools.”

    Another study showed that even if eliminating racial preferences in law schools would mean 21 percent fewer black matriculants, there would still be no reduction in the number of blacks who graduate and pass the bar exam...

    In six devastating words, the Heriot-Kirsanow-Gaziano brief distills the case against the “diversity” rationale for racial preferences: “Minority students are not public utilities.”

  4. #384
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Just for clarity Boo and play, I do not mean to insult your intelligence or anything like that. I just seriously think it is an antiquated law that partly because of all the controversy around it, needs to go away because it really is no longer needed. It is not the 1950's anymore.

    Heheh "Boo & Play" sounds like a new hiphop group.
    We're a new group now.

    Let me ask you, should we make changes based on people's misunderstandings, or what the law actually says. Frankly, if white males are concerned about getting into college, they have more trouble filling out the apper work than they face from AA. Minorities, eccept for maybe women, are not taking seats from white males. It just isn't happening.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #385
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We're a new group now.

    Let me ask you, should we make changes based on people's misunderstandings, or what the law actually says. Frankly, if white males are concerned about getting into college, they have more trouble filling out the apper work than they face from AA. Minorities, eccept for maybe women, are not taking seats from white males. It just isn't happening.
    We have to be careful even with perceptions. In this case it is just not needed anymore. Most if not all university's go above and beyond to recruit minority's. Since quotas are unconstitutional anyway and anti discrimination laws cover the rest, it is absolutely unnecessary anymore. It is more trouble than it is worth now days.

    In the end anything that will help close the racial divide is a good thing. AA going away is at least a good start.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #386
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    We have to be careful even with perceptions. In this case it is just not needed anymore. Most if not all university's go above and beyond to recruit minority's. Since quotas are unconstitutional anyway and anti discrimination laws cover the rest, it is absolutely unnecessary anymore. It is more trouble than it is worth now days.

    In the end anything that will help close the racial divide is a good thing. AA going away is at least a good start.
    Why do you suppose they do that? There's no law requiring they do? Even when they lost the Michigan case, they saw a need to ask about diversity. All this for a very small number of students? All things considered, why are they asking? And white are white males whinning?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #387
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Im not convinced AA has outlived its neccessity. However, it should take into account income & socio-economic status more than JUST skin color.

  8. #388
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    Im not convinced AA has outlived its neccessity. However, it should take into account income & socio-economic status more than JUST skin color.
    Why should economic status be considered?

  9. #389
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Hare View Post
    Why should economic status be considered?
    What should be considered and who decides?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #390
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Why do you suppose they do that? There's no law requiring they do? Even when they lost the Michigan case, they saw a need to ask about diversity. All this for a very small number of students? All things considered, why are they asking? And white are white males whinning?
    Because it is not needed, and it is not helping at this point. How many times will you ask me to repeat the same thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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