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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #301
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Sematics? I doubt that. However, I don't think most actually know what the standards really are. Test scores, for example, mean much less than some think. As does GPA. Those things are used mostly just to reduce the numbers you're going to look at. After that, and all who are considered meet those standards, you look for other, more subjective standards.
    And race is clearly not a determinant of the quality of a student, his/her abilities, etc. If you think so, that's blatant racism. AA purports to use race as a factor because it promotes diversity for the entire school, and/or because it is giving an advantage to those presumed to have been disadvantaged unjustly.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Qualifying was the word used in the OP.

    Qualifying was the word I used.

    You have failed to make a relevant point.
    Qualifications was the word I used, in a different discussion. Don't confuse the two.

    Everyone here except you understood that "qualifying" was meant to mean a qualification to be considered, not a necessary factor. Get over it.
    Last edited by misterman; 12-02-11 at 12:53 PM.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    And race is clearly not a determinant of the quality of a student, his/her abilities, etc. If you think so, that's blatant racism. AA purports to use race as a factor because it promotes diversity for the entire school, and/or because it is giving an advantage to those presumed to have been disadvantaged unjustly.
    Who says anyone thinks race is a determinant factor, aleast the way you mean it? Again, the law says you can't discrminate due to race. AA says colleges must show they are not discriminating due to race.

    I speaking of other standards. Now diversity means more than race, and is something valued by colleges due to exposing people to different thoghts and ways of life. Now, that is not discrominating because of race, but because of what differing experience and views you bring to the school. Has nothing to do with lowering standards or favoring one race over another.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, the law says you can't discrminate due to race. AA says colleges must show they are not discriminating due to race.
    Are you sure that's how the law reads?

    Does this mean the lawsuit in the OP is likely to succeed? Do you think it ought to?

    I speaking of other standards. Now diversity means more than race, and is something valued by colleges due to exposing people to different thoghts and ways of life. Now, that is not discrominating because of race, but because of what differing experience and views you bring to the school. Has nothing to do with lowering standards or favoring one race over another.
    It boils down to the motivation behind the AA policy. Is it to bring diversity, or is it to give blacks a leg up? Both motives have been used in the past.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So you don't think AA is racial discrimination, is that it?
    As it says you cannot discrminate due to race, and requires we show that we do not discriminate due to race, the law istelf is not racist. When schools and others have been called on for not following that law, they have lost in court. The courts have made clear that you cannot have quotas (as early as 78), and that you cannot use race to discriminate. And it is largely because of AA that you can't.

    Look up the word "qualifications." It's not the same as "qualifying."
    I know the meaning of both words. You have to first know what schools want, what meets their qualifications. you'd be surprised how little they think of test scores and GPAs. And with good reason.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But if there is a quota system for minorities, that would make race a qualifying factor for those slots. I don't think quotas are really legal in college admissions though (though I'll bet they still exist unofficially).
    Fine.

    Just post the unofficial documents that prove the unofficial quotas.

    I have no problem with an admissions office looking for diversity when reviewing all the qualified applicants.

    If your cultural experience is the country club and skiing in colorado, your essay is not going to stand out. But if you've spent summers in Poland with your grandma or worked on your great aunts farm in Quebec, you're a white kid who might stand out. You have something unique to offer the University.

    White kids with tutors and SAT classes are a dime a dozen. Having extra help and coddling hardly proves your INDEPENDENT abilities.

    The OP is just fueling the excuse making by white kids who didn't get into their first choice and are too proud to go to a JC for two years.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    If we can someday get beyond race and to the crux of the problem without politically-correct indignation, we might actually begin to address an issue which whose cause may not ultimately be racism. Racism may simply be a symptom of a deeper underlying obstacle to equality. The very hint of this invariably elicits self-righteous psychobabble.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Are you sure that's how the law reads?

    Does this mean the lawsuit in the OP is likely to succeed? Do you think it ought to?
    If someone discrimintared due to race, like in 78 or Michigan, yes, they will likely win. It will depend on whether the reported facts are true or not.

    It boils down to the motivation behind the AA policy. Is it to bring diversity, or is it to give blacks a leg up? Both motives have been used in the past.
    It does boil down to that. With Michigan, I believe the ruling was they could not use race, but when asked if they could seek diverity, the ruled yes. Now remember, this is the school WANTED, and not what anyone even sggested they have. And yes, both have been used, but the only way race could be used by law had to be sued through the courts. When a company, business or school had been shown to have seriously discrminated against more qualified applicants due to race, the courts were and are allowed to demand they hire qualified applicants of that race. But this can only be done through the courts.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As it says you cannot discrminate due to race, and requires we show that we do not discriminate due to race, the law istelf is not racist.
    I didn't say racist, and I wasn't talking about the law.

    Do AA policies amount to racial discrimination? They clearly use race as a factor.

    When schools and others have been called on for not following that law, they have lost in court. The courts have made clear that you cannot have quotas (as early as 78), and that you cannot use race to discriminate. And it is largely because of AA that you can't.
    Yes, the courts said no quotas (in Bakke, as you reference), but I'm simply questioning it's conclusion that using race as a factor isn't discrimination.

    You have to first know what schools want, what meets their qualifications. you'd be surprised how little they think of test scores and GPAs. And with good reason.
    You seem to know. Where do you get your info? Can you share your source with us?
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If someone discrimintared due to race, like in 78 or Michigan, yes, they will likely win. It will depend on whether the reported facts are true or not.
    So if a white student had better SATs than a black student but wasn't admitted and the black student was, would you see that as likely discrimination?

    What if the races were reversed?

    It does boil down to that.
    Okay. It would still be a matter of degree for me.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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