View Poll Results: Should an applicants race be a deciding factor for admission to a university?

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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #281
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    But it's not, by definition. It is skewing the rules. It is letting blacks have four strikes before they're out, to torture the analogy.
    It's actually not like "letting blacks have four strikes" at all. And it is certainly is "leveling the playing field" by certain interpretations which is why I said "some people" see it that way. You're free to disagree, but that's just your opinion.

  2. #282
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    Then you need to stop assuming that most people who are against AA are also for other discriminatory practices. This is typical debate 101 tactics. It doesn't matter if there are people who support other forms of discrimination. We are talking about the merit of this particular form of discrimination which is a government or political mandate. I think we can say the discrimination is not good and strive to eliminate all forms including AA.
    I actually didn't make that assumption AT ALL and you would know that if you took Reading 101. The post of mine that you quoted makes it incredibly clear that I'm not making that argument. Read it again and come back.

  3. #283
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    It's actually not like "letting blacks have four strikes" at all.
    Sure it is.

    If standards are lower for blacks than whites, that's exactly what it is.
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  4. #284
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Yeah, presumably. I don't know for sure, but I went to a top 10 school and they pretty much all use AA. And you're missing my point. The quality of students at the University was great, so the assumptions anti-AA people are making that less qualified students were let in over more qualified students holds no water in my experience.
    Students with even better academic qualifications were (presumably) denied entry to your school to make room for lower-qualified black students. How else would AA work? If the students are all great regardless of race, what is the issue in this debate? That is an injustice to the students who were denied entry. That is the concern of those who oppose this form of AA.

    Perhaps you are arguing that your experience showed that all the students achieved at a high level regardless of admission policies? That's fine, but it simply says admission policies based on race don't affect quality of students, right?

    I think the argument you are on the verge of making is that YOU, and your fellow students, actually got a better education because of the other students admitted under AA policies than you would have at a less diverse place. Does that sound right?
    Last edited by misterman; 12-02-11 at 11:11 AM.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    The white student should have applied to more than one school.
    Can you say the same of the black student?
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  6. #286
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Sure it is.

    If standards are lower for blacks than whites, that's exactly what it is.
    Well the type of AA that I support doesn't lower any standards.

  7. #287
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Students with even better academic qualifications were (presumably) denied entry to your school to make room for lower-qualified black students. How else would AA work? If the students are all great regardless of race, what is the issue in this debate? That is an injustice to the students who were denied entry. That is the concern of those who oppose this form of AA.
    The problem with this argument is that it assumes that kids who benefit from AA are of lower quality than other students. That's not necessarily the case and probably often is not the case. You could easily have two similarly qualified students - one white and one black - and the black one benefits from AA. I don't know why you automatically assume that the black kid is less qualified.

    Perhaps you are arguing that your experience showed that all the students achieved at a high level regardless of admission policies? That's fine, but it simply says admission policies based on race don't affect quality of students, right?

    I think the argument you are on the verge of making is that YOU, and your fellow students, actually got a better education because of the other students admitted under AA policies than you would have at a less diverse place. Does that sound right?
    I made that argument earlier in a different conversation. In this conversation, my argument is simply that the AA had no apparent effect on the quality of students. Consequently, all these arguments that AA substitutes worse students for better ones holds no water in my experience with AA.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Getting back on topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Why is "skin color" still a qualifying factor for college admission in the 21st century?
    Um... it's not a qualifying factor.

    Never was.

    Your entire thread and premise is a fail.

    Perhaps you should put down the Ayn Rand and spend some time getting up to speed on CURRENT admissions practices.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Sure it is.

    If standards are lower for blacks than whites, that's exactly what it is.
    There is no law that requires lower standards for anyone. Bush was admitted eventhough he didn't meet the standards others did, but there was no law making that mandatory. However, unlike AA, there was no law saying that they couldn't hold Bush to a lower standard. AA, however, says you can't use race to discriminate with.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Well the type of AA that I support doesn't lower any standards.
    What kind do you support? Is this going to be a semantic discussion about what "standards" are?
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