View Poll Results: Should an applicants race be a deciding factor for admission to a university?

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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #231
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So if their grades and qualifications are equal, how do you know race was the deciding factor?
    Hmmm... interesting question... let's see... how do I know race was the deciding factor?...

    [thinking... thinking... ]

    Oh wait, I may know!... Could it be because I AUTHORED THE HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO!!!!

    The only place where this situation would happen is in the bottom rung of the class. You're talking about a kid who may or may not have gotten into college, especially in your scenario where they have equal grades. I'd like to hear your case for why they would take the white kid in your scenario. Remember, grades and SATs are equal.
    No, I am talking about two kids, one black, one white, equal academic qualifications, vastly different socioeconomic backgrounds. They are both honor students with good grades and are applying to the same university. However, the upper middle-class black kid gets a bump on his application for being black, while the welfare-class white kids gets nothing. The bump makes all the difference as to who gets admitted and who does not.

    Again I ask you, is this not morally obscene?

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    Again I ask you, is this not morally obscene?
    No, it's a made up hypothetical.

    It is equally wrong how the stepsisters treat Cinderella.
    Last edited by hazlnut; 12-01-11 at 08:01 PM.

  3. #233
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Well yes, the unfairness perpetuated against future Einstein's is the greatest problem plaguing the education system.
    I see you got your courage up after I logged off. Good for you!

    Now back to the issue.

    The education system is plagued with all sorts of problems, and this is just one of them:

    The more successful AA/EO policies are at redressing past racial discrimination practices, the more likely such policies are to become the source of racial discrimination practices.

    To put it succinctly: An upper middle-class student, regardless of his race, should NOT be getting equal or better bumps on his college application vis-a-vis less socioeconomically advantaged students. To help you better get a handle on this, imagine if the upper middle-class student and the welfare-class student are both black and they both receive the same bonus for being black. Is this fair?


    (And please, do not reply with some lame-ass diatribe about how race-based bonus systems no longer exist. Of course they exist. It would be impossible to implement an AA/EO policy without some such system, however opaque and convoluted it may be made in order to comply with the increasingly inharmonic orders currently resonating from the legislative and judicial branches of government at the same time.)

  4. #234
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    No, I am talking about two kids, one black, one white, equal academic qualifications, vastly different socioeconomic backgrounds. They are both honor students with good grades and are applying to the same university. However, the upper middle-class black kid gets a bump on his application for being black, while the welfare-class white kids gets nothing. The bump makes all the difference as to who gets admitted and who does not.

    Again I ask you, is this not morally obscene?
    In a situation where only one of them can get in, that pretty much means that their qualifications put them both on the bubble. So any number of secondary things come into play. Maybe one applicant's essay is slightly better than the other. Maybe one plays the trumpet better than the other one.

    No matter what the racial and or socio-economic factors, in this hypothetical, it's essentially 50/50 that either one gets in. So no, I don't think it's morally obscene that one got in and the other didn't, because even if you take race out of the equation, statistically there's a 50% chance that they choose either student.

    Should the white kid get in ahead of the black kid? Even if it's utterly equal, why one and not the other?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    they do. no one keeps you out. our problem isn't people who have the ability who can't go, it's people who are going who don't have the ability.
    Blame the NCAA and the popularity of college football and basketball.

  6. #236
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    In a situation where only one of them can get in, that pretty much means that their qualifications put them both on the bubble. So any number of secondary things come into play. Maybe one applicant's essay is slightly better than the other. Maybe one plays the trumpet better than the other one.

    No matter what the racial and or socio-economic factors, in this hypothetical, it's essentially 50/50 that either one gets in. So no, I don't think it's morally obscene that one got in and the other didn't, because even if you take race out of the equation, statistically there's a 50% chance that they choose either student.

    Should the white kid get in ahead of the black kid? Even if it's utterly equal, why one and not the other?
    I am asking you a very simple question that requires a very simple answer.

    Do you think it would be morally obscene for the black student, in the aformentioned scenario, to be handed an admissions-clinching bump over the white student for no other reason than his being black?

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    I am asking you a very simple question that requires a very simple answer.

    Do you think it would be morally obscene for the black student, in the aformentioned scenario, to be handed an admissions-clinching bump over the white student for no other reason than his being black?
    No, because it's statistically 50/50 either way. Even if it's 2 kids of the same race, one gets in and the other doesn't. Meaning that either way, something has to put one of them over the hump. Even if they make the decision by folding the first page of both applications into paper airplanes and pick whichever one goes farther.

    It would be wrong if he got in over a more qualified kid based on his race. If the white kid was a slam dunk to get in and didn't because his spot went to a less qualified black kid, I'd buy into it. But that's not the situation you described.

    Again. Utterly equal. You can only pick one. Which one and why?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  8. #238
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    No, because it's statistically 50/50 either way. Even if it's 2 kids of the same race, one gets in and the other doesn't. Meaning that either way, something has to put one of them over the hump. Even if they make the decision by folding the first page of both applications into paper airplanes and pick whichever one goes farther.

    It would be wrong if he got in over a more qualified kid based on his race. If the white kid was a slam dunk to get in and didn't because his spot went to a less qualified black kid, I'd buy into it. But that's not the situation you described.

    Again. Utterly equal. You can only pick one. Which one and why?
    Once again, the communication process breaks down.

    It's not 50/50. The black student gets a bump for being black while the white student gets nothing for being white. The bump which the black student receives for being black makes all the difference in his getting admitted ahead of the white student.

    This is the scenario. What is your answer?

    In case you missed it. The black student hails from an upper middle-class background while the white student is from the welfare class. Again, not 50/50, the black student enjoys a socioeconomic advantage over the white student.
    Last edited by Sig; 12-01-11 at 09:11 PM.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    To put it succinctly: An upper middle-class student, regardless of his race, should NOT be getting equal or better bumps on his college application vis-a-vis less socioeconomically advantaged students. To help you better get a handle on this, imagine if the upper middle-class student and the welfare-class student are both black and they both receive the same bonus for being black. Is this fair?
    First, this comment has nothing to do with our original conversation.
    Second, why shouldn't a rich kid get in over a poor kid if the admissions office thinks he'll add more to the college?
    Third, sure, it's fair, if the college thinks that both of them will add to the college environment.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    I am asking you a very simple question that requires a very simple answer.

    Do you think it would be morally obscene for the black student, in the aformentioned scenario, to be handed an admissions-clinching bump over the white student for no other reason than his being black?
    Ah, the loaded question... "Would XYZ unfair hypothetical scenario be unfair?"


    The white student should have applied to more than one school.

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