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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #161
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    If it were a small percentage of blacks that were doing poorly academically, then you could easily dismiss Thunder's post by pointing to "choice". However, when it's a significant percentage, then something else is clearly going on, particularly when those "choices" are complemented by poor environments and problematic histories.
    I addressed that better in my longer post that I just made...
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    If it were a small percentage of blacks that were doing poorly academically, then you could easily dismiss Thunder's post by pointing to "choice". However, when it's a significant percentage, then something else is clearly going on, particularly when those "choices" are complemented by poor environments and problematic histories.
    I can't believe someone is actually arguing that anyone can simply "choose" to overcome great adversity & poor upbringing.

    what is the endgame of such a claim? they are simply saying that the real reason soo many blacks are poorly educated, poorly housed, and working in crappy jobs or no jobs...is because they are lazy, unmotivated, and just ****kickers. that is the agenda here.

  3. #163
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I can't believe someone is actually arguing that anyone can simply "choose" to overcome great adversity & poor upbringing.
    I cannot believe that so many of you are still laboring under the delusion that all white people have enjoyed better socioeconomic advantages than all black people.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    I cannot believe that so many of you are still laboring under the delusion that all white people have enjoyed better socioeconomic advantages than all black people.
    The word "all" is why your statement is a strawman of the majority of pro-AA arguments.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    I cannot believe that so many of you are still laboring under the delusion that all white people have enjoyed better socioeconomic advantages than all black people.
    who said "all"? I can't stand strawman arguments.

    but yes, a much higher percentage of blacks have worse socioeconomic advantages than whites.

  6. #166
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The word "all" is why your statement is a strawman of the majority of pro-AA arguments.
    Oh, and why is that?

    Would you care to explain?

  7. #167
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I know that an argument can be made that shows that the barriers are structural and systematic, all with historical undertones, but at what point does time and distance negate those factors? At what point does Choice factor in? At what point do extraneous factors such as gangs factor in? Poor whites in the Ozarks aren't doing any better than inner city kids.

    Asians were treated very poorly in the USA at the beginning. They were treated essentially like slaves when building the rail roads and that is why they initially came. They made something of themselves... they went into business (laundry and food) and found out that being an entrepeneur was possible.

    I taught inner city expulsion school... the toughest of the tough. Makes the feel good movies that you see look tame. 97% black. I was one of only two white people on the entire campus and there were not many more in the entire section of the city. Some really smart kids. The problem was/is culture. Not black culture or white, but a culture about a lack of understanding about choice and the future. Their parents didn't value education since they didn't understand it. I would endlessly talk about work attitudes and so many smart kids heard me but just didn't get it in their hearts since they had never seen it modeled for them. A few would pop out and do great but so many fell into the patterns that they saw their parents live. Low income jobs, pregnancy, not moving up the ladder, etc. That is where AA should really be focused. Getting into the lives of those that need it earlier. Once they are adults it is almost too late and it angers those that feel they deserve a spot over a less qualified person.

    Well, I started rambling and made a few points in there.
    This still does not negate the point that while choice alone may be the explanation for a small percentage of a population doing poorly, it does not explain when a majority of a population is doing poorly.

    When nearly an entire population is doing poorly, something other than mere choice is happening. Either their environment and history are creating barriers to their success or their environment and history are influencing how they make choices OR both are happening which is my take on the situation. Even your teaching example and your mention of gangs illustrates how students' environments influence them.

    It's interesting that you brought up Asians because Confucianism permeated the culture of many Asian populations along time ago. Confucianism's emphasis on education and respect for elders certainly had an impact on how Asians who immigrated to the US fared in the US. So again, we see history having an impact on a group of people. It's the same for the black population.

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    Oh, and why is that?

    Would you care to explain?
    Because no one said "all" except for you.

  9. #169
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    who said "all"? I can't stand strawman arguments.

    but yes, a much higher percentage of blacks have worse socioeconomic advantages than whites.
    But, of course, not all blacks are worse off than all whites, you do admit that?

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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    But, of course, not all blacks are worse off than all whites, you do admit that?
    ALL blacks?

    hell, I live in the only county in America where the average black income is higher than the average white income.

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