View Poll Results: Should an applicants race be a deciding factor for admission to a university?

Voters
82. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES

    9 10.98%
  • NO

    73 89.02%
Page 16 of 53 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 528

Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #151
    King Of The Dog Pound
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    34,516

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well, if you just "try hard enough," you should be able to overcome any supposed disadvantages thrown your way, ain't that right? Ain't that what conservatives always say?

    Most folks on this board know that I'm Asian-American. I am ****ing blessed to be from an upper middle-class socioeconomic background. Asian-Americans are probably the group most disadvantaged by affirmative action. But you know what? I don't five a flying ****. My race wasn't enslaved for hundreds of years. My race isn't just pulling its ass out of the ditch that was Jim Crow. My race isn't being stopped for driving while black, and my race isn't the one that's being ghettoized, living in ****ty neighborhoods, and facing housing discrimination. (and if you don't believe me on any of these, the sociological data is out there. Just look for it.) I mean, ****, we have it pretty ****ing good in this country!

    So I'm sick of white folks whining and bitching about affirmative action (aka "reverse racism") while failing to acknowledge the existence of white privilege - which is affirmative action for white folks by default. And believe me, it exists. It's just a lot less noticeable when you're white.

    Not to mention people focus too much on college admission and job hiring policies - when what affirmative action REALLY refers to is stuff like outreach programs, building better schools in impoverished neighborhoods, job training programs, etc. Nobody ever focuses on that stuff because that stuff doesn't get people riled up. But that's what the meat of affirmative action policies have comprised since the 60s, the hiring/college admissions/quota part is only a small part of what affirmative action policies really are.
    The problem is it's not helping. At some point you have to let people stand on their own. It's not the schools or the neighborhood, it's us as in minority's not taking advantage because they would rather take the easy road of drugs etc.

    When are people going to stop blaming ill's of the past and put the blame where it belongs. Squarely on our own shoulders in the here and now.
    Last edited by Black Dog; 11-30-11 at 07:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  2. #152
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The problem is it's not helping. At some point you have to let people stand on their own. It's not the schools or the neighborhood, it's us as in minority's not taking advantage because they would rather take the easy road of drugs etc.

    When are people going to stop blaming ill's of the past and put the blame where it belongs. Squarely on our own shoulders.
    I don't buy that one bit. I believe barriers are structural/systematic, all with historical underpinnings. You could reverse the situation and it would be the same with any race, IMHO.

    But it so happens that black people have actually been doing better than they have since Jim Crow was repealed, amassing more wealth and resources once those de jure barriers were removed. So I actually have faith that with or without government policies, black people will be alright.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #153
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Then what other reason could it be? Because the evil white man is holding us down? Because schools that are in predominantly minority neighborhoods are not as good? If someone does not have the skills to get the grades even in a crap school, what makes people think that they can all of a sudden get them in college? Particularly based on race?

    Please explain why I and other blacks who went to school did it without affirmative action?

    This is not an attack on you, but seriously, I would like to know.
    Well, #1, I'm not going to explain why you got into school w/o affirmative action. You can do that if you want since that's your business.

    In any case, supporting AA nor more requires someone to assume minorities can't compete than supporting legacy or athletics admissions requires someone to believe that athletes and legacies cannot compete. There are plenty of people whose race, legacy status and athletic promise is considered when applying who can and do certainly "compete on a level playing field".

    I support AA because I understand that diverse experiences increase the diversity of ideas exchanged on a campus. It should never be the only factor and it should always be a secondary factor, but I have no problem with it being a factor if colleges think it will add to their campus. I support looking at extracurricular activities for the same reason. I support judging a student's GPA and scores relative to the school they attended (and this goes for kids of all races). Race is just another thing to be considered among a bunch of other things.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 11-30-11 at 07:38 PM.

  4. #154
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,906

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    this cultural problem is a direct result of slavery, segregation, and discrimination.
    At every moment of every person's life they have what is known as a "Choice" that enables them to change anythign and everything about their life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  5. #155
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't buy that one bit. I believe barriers are structural/systematic, all with historical underpinnings. You could reverse the situation and it would be the same with any race, IMHO.

    But it so happens that black people have actually been doing better than they have since Jim Crow was repealed, amassing more wealth and resources once those de jure barriers were removed. So I actually have faith that with or without government policies, black people will be alright.
    Exactly, it's not about black people specifically. It's about what happens to human beings when they live in certain environments and have certain historical disadvantages. When you see an entire sect of human beings not attending college at the same levels as other sects, it indicates a problem. When you couple that reality with certain disadvantaged environmental factors and histories that that sect of the population shares, it indicates a problem with the environment.

    If just a small percentage of said population was doing poorly academically, then you could certainly chalk it up to "personal responsibility", but when almost an ENTIRE population is doing poorly something else is going on.

  6. #156
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    The greatest city on Earth
    Last Seen
    08-04-12 @ 04:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    31,089

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    At every moment of every person's life they have what is known as a "Choice" that enables them to change anythign and everything about their life.
    right, its SOOO easy to simply change one's life in drastic & amazing ways. anyone can do it, if they aren't lazy and stupid.


  7. #157
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    At every moment of every person's life they have what is known as a "Choice" that enables them to change anythign and everything about their life.
    If it were a small percentage of blacks that were doing poorly academically, then you could easily dismiss Thunder's post by pointing to "choice". However, when it's a significant percentage, then something else is clearly going on, particularly when those "choices" are complemented by poor environments and problematic histories.

  8. #158
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,906

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't buy that one bit. I believe barriers are structural/systematic, all with historical underpinnings. You could reverse the situation and it would be the same with any race, IMHO.

    But it so happens that black people have actually been doing better than they have since Jim Crow was repealed, amassing more wealth and resources once those de jure barriers were removed. So I actually have faith that with or without government policies, black people will be alright.
    I know that an argument can be made that shows that the barriers are structural and systematic, all with historical undertones, but at what point does time and distance negate those factors? At what point does Choice factor in? At what point do extraneous factors such as gangs factor in? Poor whites in the Ozarks aren't doing any better than inner city kids.

    Asians were treated very poorly in the USA at the beginning. They were treated essentially like slaves when building the rail roads and that is why they initially came. They made something of themselves... they went into business (laundry and food) and found out that being an entrepeneur was possible.

    I taught inner city expulsion school... the toughest of the tough. Makes the feel good movies that you see look tame. 97% black. I was one of only two white people on the entire campus and there were not many more in the entire section of the city. Some really smart kids. The problem was/is culture. Not black culture or white, but a culture about a lack of understanding about choice and the future. Their parents didn't value education since they didn't understand it. I would endlessly talk about work attitudes and so many smart kids heard me but just didn't get it in their hearts since they had never seen it modeled for them. A few would pop out and do great but so many fell into the patterns that they saw their parents live. Low income jobs, pregnancy, not moving up the ladder, etc. That is where AA should really be focused. Getting into the lives of those that need it earlier. Once they are adults it is almost too late and it angers those that feel they deserve a spot over a less qualified person.

    Well, I started rambling and made a few points in there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  9. #159
    Professor
    Sig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    11-29-13 @ 11:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    2,179

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    I'll ask again:

    Would anyone serious argue that it is not wholly unjust for a welfare class white student, with grades and SATs on par with that of an upper middle class black student, to be passed over in favor of admitting the black student because of his race?

  10. #160
    Sage
    Bodhisattva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:26 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    63,906

    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    right, its SOOO easy to simply change one's life in drastic & amazing ways. anyone can do it, if they aren't lazy and stupid.

    I better explained my point in the longer past that I just made...
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

Page 16 of 53 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •