View Poll Results: Should an applicants race be a deciding factor for admission to a university?

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Thread: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

  1. #101
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You are making false assumptions about me with this statement. I don't know what you mean by "lengthy" life, since everyone has been around the same amount of time by 18, but I had already lived a diverse life by 18 as well so we are not different in our experiences in that manner. You don't know much else about so I'm not sure how you are able to decipher such differences between us. Nonetheless, I greatly benefited from being around even more types of people in college as an older person in a college environment.


    I never said your children should "slide their way through life by relying on affirmative action". By claiming that this comment is "substituting your own reality for my reality", you are obviously misrepresenting my arguments.


    Sure, but perhaps I should clarify what I meant by "value". I didn't mean value to the student body, I meant inherent value as a person. Race does not influence the latter, it can influence the former.


    No, I think past experiences are just as valuable to the student body as future aspirations and "circumstance of birth" certainly influences the former. A campus filled with people who have experienced the world in a diverse amount of ways leads to more productive and valuable class discussion and learning opportunities than a campus filled with a less diverse group.


    Well for colleges that have the "limit", they have to choose and I think it's good that they want many different ideas on their campuses and you don't get many different ideas by accepting people who have the same or similar "personal details".
    I have to head out the door right now and I don't have time to fully respond - but I will later on.

    I feel I need to apologize if I came across as judgmental or harsh and personally attacking - I wasn't trying to be that way but I managed it anyhow in a typical 'me' fashion.
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  2. #102
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Right, one of those can be family background. Extra-curricular activities don't always speak to a person's ability in academia, especially in the US where school makes special exceptions for talented athletes. I don't see how allowing a black person a place over a white student is any worse than allowing an athlete over another candidate when both have lower academic score. Now the university might deem the athlete more valuable, but me personally, I enjoyed having a diverse student body in my university, and in fact it was one of the selling point for me. I see university as more than a place to learn books.
    There are certainly problems when it comes to sports in academia, particularly football. You don't even have to be from a big school to have all the normal problems associated with football players. About the only school which really does it right is Notre Dame which requires that their students actually perform to the academic standards of ND; where as most schools will fudge and lie their players through if they are good enough in order to keep them on the team. Not really for that, not really for the money sink which has become college sports. It "brings money" into the University, but how much of that money does the Physics department get? Not a lot. Most goes towards sports and alumni crap.

    Still, it has it's own set of standards and even there you have to perform to them or go away. Football too is fairly elitist. Despite the problems that University can have with its sports programs, in general admission to University should be 100% performance based; sex, religion, sexuality, race, etc. should not be factored in.
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  3. #103
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    The only issue with this is that some ethnic groups have historically had less exposure to college and university education than others, which means those ethnic groups don't know the value of education and prowess for knowledge.


    Affirmative Action programs allow those ethnic groups to realize it by experiencing it.
    That's not a real issue, most people understand the value of higher education. There are serious problems well before the University levels that needs to be fixed, affirmative action to get minorities into schools is just a band-aid. And not a very good band-aid either. It's just something to make us all feel a little better. "Oh, I know there are problems, but we use Affirmative Action to get more of those minorities into University...aren't we great.". Something to ease our minds. Meanwhile the problems are not fixed. One of the major problems is overall K-12 funding and the quality of education from public institution to public institution. It's all over the map, the city schools are well worse than others, etc. But there's plenty of socioeconomic reasons for this too. Another major problem is corporate capitalism which shuts down economic mobility. Now people born in the hood stay in the hood, die in the hood; their children repeat the circle. It's harder and harder to get out, which leads to more frustration at the system and a rejection of the "outside" world. There are plenty of issues to tackle, but all anyone seems to want is some cosmetic solution.

    We have to get our schools in order, we have to get our affairs in order.
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  4. #104
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I guess I didn't say it, but thought it. I hold that position assuming that the minority students meet their minimum qualifications. The best and brightest should get a hand up, in my opinion.
    the problem is that affirmative action doesn't do that, but rather puts people into colleges whose academic rigor has generally already been demonstrated to be at either the top end of their ability set, or beyond it. Colleges that brag about their high minority acceptance rates tend to be quiet about the fact that those students then disproportionately drop out after a couple of years with no degree and high student debt that will burden them for years.

  5. #105
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post


    I get his point, but it's bogus.
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  6. #106
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I get his point, but it's bogus.
    Definitely some hyperbole involved, but his point is not bogus.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    So what's next then...only skinny people get in? Or how about only people with blue eyes, everyone knows they're smarter...what a ration of Cr*p.

  8. #108
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well, if you just "try hard enough," you should be able to overcome any supposed disadvantages thrown your way, ain't that right? Ain't that what conservatives always say?

    Most folks on this board know that I'm Asian-American. I am ****ing blessed to be from an upper middle-class socioeconomic background. Asian-Americans are probably the group most disadvantaged by affirmative action. But you know what? I don't five a flying ****. My race wasn't enslaved for hundreds of years. My race isn't just pulling its ass out of the ditch that was Jim Crow. My race isn't being stopped for driving while black, and my race isn't the one that's being ghettoized, living in ****ty neighborhoods, and facing housing discrimination. (and if you don't believe me on any of these, the sociological data is out there. Just look for it.) I mean, ****, we have it pretty ****ing good in this country!

    So I'm sick of white folks whining and bitching about affirmative action (aka "reverse racism") while failing to acknowledge the existence of white privilege - which is affirmative action for white folks by default. And believe me, it exists. It's just a lot less noticeable when you're white.

    Not to mention people focus too much on college admission and job hiring policies - when what affirmative action REALLY refers to is stuff like outreach programs, building better schools in impoverished neighborhoods, job training programs, etc. Nobody ever focuses on that stuff because that stuff doesn't get people riled up. But that's what the meat of affirmative action policies have comprised since the 60s, the hiring/college admissions/quota part is only a small part of what affirmative action policies really are.
    Oh My God!...First we have white guilt and now we have yellow guilt.

    What's next, are the native americans going to join in with some red guilt?

    No I'm not being insensitive, I'm displaying compassion for the relentless beating that poor dead horse is taking.
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  9. #109
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    When colleges being an honest practice of admitting the absolute best qualified student regardless of any other factors, I will get excited about this issue. Until then, not so much.
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    Re: 21st Century Racism Is Thriving In American Academe

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    When colleges being an honest practice of admitting the absolute best qualified student regardless of any other factors, I will get excited about this issue. Until then, not so much.
    I don't appreciate people condemning AA, while ignoring/supporting legacy preferences. Its hypocrisy and wrong.

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