View Poll Results: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

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  • Yes, it would reduce corruption and ensure that congress was more focused on the American people

    14 34.15%
  • No, it would have no effect/it would change things for the worse

    21 51.22%
  • Other (please explain)

    6 14.63%
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Thread: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

  1. #121
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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Essentially, instead of attracting good people, we'd be attracting incompetent people. Any person with an ounce of drive and ability would run away from a scenario like this.
    We're attracting incompetent people now, just dishonest ones. When do you think we're going to see any good politicians?
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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    We're attracting incompetent people now, just dishonest ones.
    The people we have now are very competent. But yes, most have become dishonest.

    An analogy. Term limits is similar to the border fence we're building along the border with Mexico. The goal of the fence is to keep illegal immigrants out... but it won't really thwart them. They're going to come anyway, just through a different way. Term limits are a wall of sorts against corruption in politics... but it won't really address the corruption problem. There will be ways to work around the "wall" and still get what they can for themselves.

    In both cases, the answer is to remove the incentives to come here or become corrupt in the first place. In the case of illegal immigration that would mean changing citizenship rules and targeting employers with heavy penalties for hiring illegal immigrants. In the case of political corruption it means redefining what "speech" is and removing and/or severely limiting what non-human entities and foreign non-citizens can do that affect our political process.

    In both cases the border fence and term limits are mere band-aids. All show, no substance. They do absolutely nothing to address the underlying cause. The meaningful solutions require us to keep ourselves accountable, and well, we just can't have that, I suppose. We'd rather stick a band-aid on it and hope for the best.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    When do you think we're going to see any good politicians?
    When we start looking beyond ourselves and vote accordingly.

  3. #123
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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    The people we have now are very competent. But yes, most have become dishonest.
    If they were competent, then why are we in the financial mess we're in? We've got people who are so fanatical about their political position that they're willing to hang the whole nation out to dry to maintain philosophical purity. That's not competent people.

    An analogy. Term limits is similar to the border fence we're building along the border with Mexico. The goal of the fence is to keep illegal immigrants out... but it won't really thwart them. They're going to come anyway, just through a different way. Term limits are a wall of sorts against corruption in politics... but it won't really address the corruption problem. There will be ways to work around the "wall" and still get what they can for themselves.
    But the fence is only one part of the puzzle, just like term limits is only one part of the puzzle. It's not a single fix-all and has never been put forward as such. We also need to get changing the system out of the hands of the people who benefit from the system. That's another part of the puzzle.

    In both cases, the answer is to remove the incentives to come here or become corrupt in the first place. In the case of illegal immigration that would mean changing citizenship rules and targeting employers with heavy penalties for hiring illegal immigrants. In the case of political corruption it means redefining what "speech" is and removing and/or severely limiting what non-human entities and foreign non-citizens can do that affect our political process.
    Exactly, which is why we limit wages, limit benefiting from time in office, keep people from being lifelong politicians, etc. Make political office something that only those who really want to serve the public good would want.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    As I see it, the primary reasons that longer terms of service are problems are: 1) A given politician will be running for reelection more often than not, and therefore will need to raise campaign funds from lobbyists. 2) The longer a politician serves in Congress, the more insulated they become from their constituents and the more they adopt the culture of Congress itself...which is rarely a good thing.

    Term limits would address both of those problems. They'd reduce the likelihood of a given politician needing to raise money for his reelection war chest, and they'd increase the turnover rate so that legislators are more in tune with their constituents and have less time to develop a Congress culture of their own.
    1) They're still "needing" that lobbying money to get re-elected, even for their last term, and to get elected the first time to begin with. Also, it would do nothing to prevent other pandering and 'perks' that could influence a politician after they leave office. There's more for sale than only re-elections. Much more. The underlying influence of money is still there regardless.

    2) I don't disagree with this.

    The only real potential positive for term limits that I see... and it is only a potential, not a given... is that during a person's last term they might be willing to vote for the overall good instead of lobbying interests. And that presumes that the politician has no promises of employment or other influences after their term in office waiting for them.

  5. #125
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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    1) They're still "needing" that lobbying money to get re-elected, even for their last term, and to get elected the first time to begin with. Also, it would do nothing to prevent other pandering and 'perks' that could influence a politician after they leave office. There's more for sale than only re-elections. Much more. The underlying influence of money is still there regardless.
    Which is why you make it illegal for anyone or any group to donate a penny to any individual candidate for any reason. No money = no influence.
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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    If they were competent, then why are we in the financial mess we're in? We've got people who are so fanatical about their political position that they're willing to hang the whole nation out to dry to maintain philosophical purity. That's not competent people.
    You're confusing competence with motive. They are quite competent (read: able) to do what they want. They could be quite able to do wonderful things for the country if they weren't lured by the huge benefits now allowed to them personally. Hence, fix the motivation, yet retain the attractiveness to still bring in able people. Don't make the mistake of tearing the system down so much that able people would rather choose to stay in the private sector. Even without the financial lure, being a Congressperson is an incredibly difficult and complex job. I don't want it left to someone who is less able because we scared all the able people away.

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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You're confusing competence with motive. They are quite competent (read: able) to do what they want. They could be quite able to do wonderful things for the country if they weren't lured by the huge benefits now allowed to them personally. Hence, fix the motivation, yet retain the attractiveness to still bring in able people. Don't make the mistake of tearing the system down so much that able people would rather choose to stay in the private sector. Even without the financial lure, being a Congressperson is an incredibly difficult and complex job. I don't want it left to someone who is less able because we scared all the able people away.
    They are elected to do a specific job. They are not doing that job. Therefore, they are either incompetent and are unable to do the job, or they are dishonest and unwilling to do it. Either way, these are not the people who ought to be holding the job. The fact is, I'd much rather these people who cannot or will not do the job stay in the public sector. If making money and gaining influence is their impetus for running, I don't want them to run.
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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    They are elected to do a specific job. They are not doing that job. Therefore, they are either incompetent and are unable to do the job, or they are dishonest and unwilling to do it. Either way, these are not the people who ought to be holding the job. The fact is, I'd much rather these people who cannot or will not do the job stay in the public sector. If making money and gaining influence is their impetus for running, I don't want them to run.
    Eliminate the financial lure, but retain something that would appeal to those who are able and willing to serve the public good, and you will get your wish.

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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Eliminate the financial lure, but retain something that would appeal to those who are able and willing to serve the public good, and you will get your wish.
    And what would you suggest that be? Remember, it has to be something that doesn't appeal to financial or personal gain.
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    Re: Would setting term limits and wages tied to average wage help motivate congress?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    As I see it, the primary reasons that longer terms of service are problems are: .... 2) The longer a politician serves in Congress, the more insulated they become from their constituents and the more they adopt the culture of Congress itself...which is rarely a good thing.

    Term limits would address both of those problems. ... and they'd increase the turnover rate so that legislators are more in tune with their constituents and have less time to develop a Congress culture of their own.
    I think Iím a typical example of US citizen. I donít have a complete set of abilities to be congressman Iím just thinking about how much I know now of who would be my constituents and how much Iíd would know of them if I was elected to congress. As a systems architect I was working with high level engineers, managers, vendors, etc. I was visiting, sometimes in Europe, standards committees with high level staff from competitors. I knew my neighbors, but they didnít represent the general population. So if I was appointed to congress with my work experience Iíd know little of the typical citizen Iíd be representing. But, if I was running and elected I wouldnít be a systems architect any longer and I have time to visit my constituents, develop an understanding of their desires, needs, etc. I think this would take some a few years and would be a big effort on my part. I think most of the posts on this thread have this backwards.

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