View Poll Results: Who is more greedy?

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  • The 99% who work hard for their money

    11 22.45%
  • The 1% who earn from the labor of their emplyees

    9 18.37%
  • This poll is preposterous

    22 44.90%
  • No Opinion

    1 2.04%
  • Everyone

    6 12.24%
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Thread: Who's greedy again?

  1. #41
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by geewrd View Post
    They probably think $75k/year is a little excessive

    Attachment 67118800
    I know you are just baiting me, but that's hardly relevant. Someone earning $75k a year in the US has little they can do for an entire country of starving children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Kiva - Loans that change lives

    People don't respect free stuff, like they do earned stuff.
    Giving them something to do is better.
    Wow, that's cool. I have never seen that.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Wow, that's cool. I have never seen that.
    Kiva is cool and reputable.
    One board member is the founder of paypal, another is the founder of linkedin.

    There are other sites, but I'm not totally up to date on them.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Excess at the expense of others. That's greed.
    So would having an Xbox 360 and buying modern warfare 3 the week it comes out instead of donating that money to a local food bank an excess at another's expense?

    Is going to see a movie on opening weekend instead of waiting till redbox or even network tv so you could donate that money to cancer research an excess at anothers expense?

    Is choosing to buy 4 shirts at Walmart rather than 1 at a local home grown retailer because you get more shirts for your money by taking advantage of walmarts deals with providers who use low cost outsourced labor an excess at another expense?

    Is spending the evening running up a $200 bar tab or going to an NFL game and spending a few hundred rather than donating it to a homeless shelter an excess at the expense of another?

    Is buying a new car, rather than a used one and using the left over money to help buy a person who can't afford it a years worth of public transportation tickets, an excess at another's expense?

    Is having a house big enough to give you an extra room for a "luxury" room like a weight room or a "man cave" instead of donating to habitat for humanity enjoying a "luxury" at another's expense?

    Is accepting a raise at work when that money could instead be used to give two employees that are paid less than your raises getting an excess at someone else's expense?

  4. #44
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So would having an Xbox 360 and buying modern warfare 3 the week it comes out instead of donating that money to a local food bank an excess at another's expense?

    Is going to see a movie on opening weekend instead of waiting till redbox or even network tv so you could donate that money to cancer research an excess at anothers expense?

    Is choosing to buy 4 shirts at Walmart rather than 1 at a local home grown retailer because you get more shirts for your money by taking advantage of walmarts deals with providers who use low cost outsourced labor an excess at another expense?

    Is spending the evening running up a $200 bar tab or going to an NFL game and spending a few hundred rather than donating it to a homeless shelter an excess at the expense of another?

    Is buying a new car, rather than a used one and using the left over money to help buy a person who can't afford it a years worth of public transportation tickets, an excess at another's expense?

    Is having a house big enough to give you an extra room for a "luxury" room like a weight room or a "man cave" instead of donating to habitat for humanity enjoying a "luxury" at another's expense?

    Is accepting a raise at work when that money could instead be used to give two employees that are paid less than your raises getting an excess at someone else's expense?
    You know, I actually have seen that argument from a modern philosopher before, but I cannot remember his name. His thing is this:

    If you are walking down the road in a pair of $200 shoes and you see someone drowning, do you stop and take off the shoes, risking their death or jump in and save their life? Everyone says, "I jump in and save their life", except for a few crazies (of course ). But then he goes further to ask, what's the difference between buying those shoes instead of donating that money to someone who needs it.

    I am torn on the issue, I must admit, Zyphlin, and so I can honestly say I do not have an answer for you. That's an internal battle that I am still dealing with and I do not have a moral decision yet. I do love the question, though. It really gets me thinking.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-27-11 at 12:12 AM.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Like so many things, a cartoon actually does a nice job poking at the issue. The short lived Dilbert Cartoon had an episode where one of the characters becomes a bit nerodic because her attempts at charity are belittled a bit by pointing out her 200 pairs of shoes and other such things.

    Its part of why I actually do agree, at their core, EVERY human is greedy to some extent. There's not a singular solitary individual I know who would forgo everything outside of actual NECESSITIES of life in order to give their money to those who can not afford those things. And frankly, our society hinges on that fact. People ENJOY having luxuries even if its as simple as having a nice $25 dollar steak at a restaurant rather than buying low grade thin skirt steak and cooking it at home, or going out to a happy hour an enjoying a couple of drinks, or enjoying a movie night out with their girl, or watching their local sports team on their 40" HD TV, or reading the latest novel that their favorite author put out....or hell, spending an hour browsing and arguing on a web forum while using their high speed FIOS internet.

    And to a point, I don't find anything wrong with that. I disagree that in and of itself greed is inherently evil or wrong. Indeed, GREED itself can be an engine for good and beneficial things in our society. Greed spurs development of new inventions and services. Greed helped spur the electronic revolution of the 1990's that gives us this technological world we live in. Greed provides us with things that bring enjoyment to hundreds of thousands of people in this country with our professional sports teams. Greed helps make items become more accessible to other people as those with money spent obscene amounts on first generation products allowing them to grow and thrive and lower in price, like Blu-Ray or HD TV's have.

    Greed CAN be bad, absolutely. Greed can manifest itself in ugly ways. But people I think are kidding themselves if they don't believe everyone is greedy to an extent, and that somehow greed is inherently evil and yet everyone isn't then somewhat evil. And I think its wholely self serving...and to an extent a bit greedy in the desire to vindicate ones self at the expense of demonizing others...when individuals attempt to justify some mystical fully opinion based standard being some kind of dividing line between what is greedy in terms of spending on luxuries and what is reasonable.

  6. #46
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Like so many things, a cartoon actually does a nice job poking at the issue. The short lived Dilbert Cartoon had an episode where one of the characters becomes a bit nerodic because her attempts at charity are belittled a bit by pointing out her 200 pairs of shoes and other such things.

    Its part of why I actually do agree, at their core, EVERY human is greedy to some extent. There's not a singular solitary individual I know who would forgo everything outside of actual NECESSITIES of life in order to give their money to those who can not afford those things. And frankly, our society hinges on that fact. People ENJOY having luxuries even if its as simple as having a nice $25 dollar steak at a restaurant rather than buying low grade thin skirt steak and cooking it at home, or going out to a happy hour an enjoying a couple of drinks, or enjoying a movie night out with their girl, or watching their local sports team on their 40" HD TV, or reading the latest novel that their favorite author put out....or hell, spending an hour browsing and arguing on a web forum while using their high speed FIOS internet.

    And to a point, I don't find anything wrong with that. I disagree that in and of itself greed is inherently evil or wrong. Indeed, GREED itself can be an engine for good and beneficial things in our society. Greed spurs development of new inventions and services. Greed helped spur the electronic revolution of the 1990's that gives us this technological world we live in. Greed provides us with things that bring enjoyment to hundreds of thousands of people in this country with our professional sports teams. Greed helps make items become more accessible to other people as those with money spent obscene amounts on first generation products allowing them to grow and thrive and lower in price, like Blu-Ray or HD TV's have.

    Greed CAN be bad, absolutely. Greed can manifest itself in ugly ways. But people I think are kidding themselves if they don't believe everyone is greedy to an extent, and that somehow greed is inherently evil and yet everyone isn't then somewhat evil. And I think its wholely self serving...and to an extent a bit greedy in the desire to vindicate ones self at the expense of demonizing others...when individuals attempt to justify some mystical fully opinion based standard being some kind of dividing line between what is greedy in terms of spending on luxuries and what is reasonable.
    I'm perfectly fine with my level of "greed."
    The living room in my house, like most other 1st worlders, is larger than the house of most 3rd worlders.
    I'm not ashamed in the least.

    On the other hand, I don't want to ever deny them the opportunity to have what I have.
    In fact, I want them to have as much as they want.

    To boil it down, wanting better for yourself and your family, even if it's more than you need, is not inherently bad.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #47
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Look, I love both of your examples and this type of discussion can do nothing but improve our understanding of each other. However, as I said Zyphlin, I am torn on that example of "greed" or whatever you want to call it, and I think where I get stuck is that I don't quite agree that having a $200 pair of shoes (or any luxury) is necessarily greed. There is a number of dollars that you could spend on a pair of shoes or a number of those $200 shoes you could buy that I would agree makes an individual greedy, but I can't define that level - I know it when I see it. As I pointed out, in that example of the $200 pair of shoes, most people say they will jump in the water regardless of the shoes - which I think goes to argue against the case of greed. If we were truly greedy, we would remove the shoes first and have no shame in admitting it (such as those who are free to admit that they paid $20,000 for a pair of shoes).

    So I think that's where I disagree with you and HG. We have different definitions of greed.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    [QUOTE=whysoserious;1059980875]I know you are just baiting me, but that's hardly relevant. Someone earning $75k a year in the US has little they can do for an entire country of starving children.

    I was baiting you to an extent, but it is important to maintain some amount of perspective in this whole discussion, no?

  9. #49
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by geewrd View Post
    I was baiting you to an extent, but it is important to maintain some amount of perspective in this whole discussion, no?
    Sure. It's a perfectly reasonable argument, and I see where you are going with it. What's the book with the guy who knows a talking guerrilla who has some controversial ideas about what we should do with starving children in other countries? Anyone remember?
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh Internets View Post
    Even more greedy than those who make millions by doing nothing other than playing the stock market and profiting off the work of their employees? I also recall they were more than to take the 700 billion dollars of welfare from the government. They are also very quick to blame government regulation on their failure. Strange...
    Everyone's greedy. That's not a problem.

    What is a problem is when greedy people choose to take stuff from other people for themselves. That is totally uncool.

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