View Poll Results: Who is more greedy?

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  • The 99% who work hard for their money

    11 22.45%
  • The 1% who earn from the labor of their emplyees

    9 18.37%
  • This poll is preposterous

    22 44.90%
  • No Opinion

    1 2.04%
  • Everyone

    6 12.24%
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Thread: Who's greedy again?

  1. #31
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    To me, $75k is just enough to afford a decent house, pay for four new tires when you need them, put in a new water heater when it goes out, etc. It may be more than you make, but it is clearly not excessive. There is no one making $75k that is flashing money around. Again, you think greed is subjective, but I don't.
    They probably think $75k/year is a little excessive

    Who's greedy again?-starvation1-jpg
    Last edited by geewrd; 11-26-11 at 11:10 PM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    To me, $75k is just enough to afford a decent house, pay for four new tires when you need them, put in a new water heater when it goes out, etc. It may be more than you make, but it is clearly not excessive. There is no one making $75k that is flashing money around. Again, you think greed is subjective, but I don't. I already defined it:
    I can afford those things at my salary, clearly you're being greedy.
    I just bought a house, new tires and could afford a water heater, if I needed one.

    See how loose we can get with these terms and accusations.


    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Excess at the expense of others. That's greed.
    Unless we both define "at the expense of others" as the same thing.
    Your definition is entirely subjective.


    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Private property and capitalism are not the same thing. And, again, in Europe, very few people had the privilege of ownership for most of history. Though I do not see the relevance of this argument anyway.
    Sometimes and in certain situations, but even then everyone owned some form of private property.
    This is a historical fact, that predates Europe.


    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Says who? You? Is gluttony a natural response as well? I don't see greed as a natural response anywhere, nor do I think that capitalism has existed for eons, or that greed has ever been a good thing - no matter how you define it or try to phrase it. Now I do agree that capitalism is the best economic/political system we have found so far, that does not mean it does not have its faults and it does not mean there is not a better system yet undiscovered.

    Personally, I don't think a system based on the negative human attribute of greed is a good system. We should be trying our best to find a better one.
    Says nature and evolutionary psychology.
    "Greed" being, having more than you need, has been with humans for quite a lot longer than the founding of the USA, Europe or almost anywhere else.

    There isn't a better system because you haven't eliminated scarcity.

    P.S. Gluttony is a natural response, fat is the storage of excess energy, for times of food shortages.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 11-26-11 at 11:12 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Really? What a cop out. Yes any discussion of the system or it's downsides is "changing the rules". Can you go ahead and change your tag to conservative, please?
    It's not a cop out, but an observation.
    Calling a person greedy, but being loose with the use of the terminology, makes it difficult to peg just what is greedy.

    See, very few would agree with an income definition, so we went with one that makes the most sense.

    Don't kill and don't steal, then you can have as much as you want.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I can afford those things at my salary, clearly you're being greedy.
    I just bought a house, new tires and could afford a water heater, if I needed one.

    See how loose we can get with these terms and accusations.
    Perhaps you can, and that is fine for you (and quite impressive really), but everyone's situation is different. $30,000 in The belly of Leviathan is not the same as $30,000 in NYC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Unless we both define "at the expense of others" as the same thing.
    Your definition is entirely subjective.
    I think if you were to look at it based off of each property type(income, gold, food, etc) and at a case by case example - it wouldn't be that difficult. It reminds me of the phrase coined a few years back that says you cannot define something in a broad scope, but "you know it when you see it" (originally in reference to hard-core porn I believe lol). I may not be able to define who is greedy based off of a short, concise post, but I can point it out if when I see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Sometimes and in certain situations, but even then everyone owned some form of private property.
    This is a historical fact, that predates Europe.
    True, but those were hard days. They weren't called the Dark Ages because they were fun. If you really wanted to apply the term greed to any specific groups of people, it wouldn't be the great masses of property (land or otherwise), but the monarchs, earls, and other royalty. And I think that same definition holds up today, though I do feel that capitalism, while a noble idea, really pits one against another and uses a negative human attribute as a driving force (which reminds me of another thread on here: "The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions").

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Says nature and evolutionary psychology.
    "Greed" being, having more than you need, has been with humans for quite a lot longer than the founding of the USA, Europe or almost anywhere else.

    There isn't a better system because you haven't eliminated scarcity.

    P.S. Gluttony is a natural response, fat is the storage of excess energy, for times of food shortages.
    I wouldn't consider it gluttonous or greedy when storing up for the potential for loss (ie saving up for the winter or hedging an asset with a derivative). Protecting oneself is not synonymous with greed - at least in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It's not a cop out, but an observation.
    Calling a person greedy, but being loose with the use of the terminology, makes it difficult to peg just what is greedy.

    See, very few would agree with an income definition, so we went with one that makes the most sense.

    Don't kill and don't steal, then you can have as much as you want.
    Right, I get that and I am not arguing it. But I am saying I have a hard time believe that there is no better system.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Just to be clear, I'm debating what you wrote here,

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious
    We live in a society that praises greed - we are all greedy. Until our economic system is not "greed" driven, what else can we expect but for the little guy to get screwed more often than not and for injustices to continue?
    There has really never been a time in human history were, our economic system wasn't driven by some form of greed.
    No one really praises greed, they simply instinctively understand, that having more of something can be good.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #36
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Perhaps you can, and that is fine for you (and quite impressive really), but everyone's situation is different. $30,000 in The belly of Leviathan is not the same as $30,000 in NYC.
    I suggest the person leave NYC.

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I think if you were to look at it based off of each property type(income, gold, food, etc) and at a case by case example - it wouldn't be that difficult. It reminds me of the phrase coined a few years back that says you cannot define something in a broad scope, but "you know it when you see it" (originally in reference to hard-core porn I believe lol). I may not be able to define who is greedy based off of a short, concise post, but I can point it out if when I see it.
    Yea but not everyone who has a lot is greedy.
    It may totally be an issue of circumstance.

    I know a guy who worked nearly morning to night, 6 days a week and besides paying his regular bills, he let the money accumulate.
    Was his large bank account an instance of greed or was it just what happened?

    Being broad with the accusation of greed is dangerous and faulty.


    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    True, but those were hard days. They weren't called the Dark Ages because they were fun. If you really wanted to apply the term greed to any specific groups of people, it wouldn't be the great masses of property (land or otherwise), but the monarchs, earls, and other royalty. And I think that same definition holds up today, though I do feel that capitalism, while a noble idea, really pits one against another and uses a negative human attribute as a driving force (which reminds me of another thread on here: "The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions").
    From our eyes, any time in the past would be the dark ages.
    Kinda like the chronological snobbery.


    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I wouldn't consider it gluttonous or greedy when storing up for the potential for loss (ie saving up for the winter or hedging an asset with a derivative). Protecting oneself is not synonymous with greed - at least in my book.
    Some people, perceived as greedy, are doing just that.
    Banks being one of the popular targets.

    What if they are "hoarding" cash for self preservation?
    Being "greedy" has two benefits, loss aversion and boosting your progeny.

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Right, I get that and I am not arguing it. But I am saying I have a hard time believe that there is no better system.
    There really isn't.
    As humans we think we can control so much, very egoist species we are.
    The fact is we can't control other human wants or desires, very well at all.

    That is the failure of planned economic systems.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #37
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    There really isn't.
    As humans we think we can control so much, very egoist species we are.
    The fact is we can't control other human wants or desires, very well at all.
    I think we are probably both reasonable individuals who agree on most things, and that's probably one of the few issues we disagree on (which then makes it seem like we disagree on more and then we argue over little things for 10-15 posts). Again, I have to prephrase this by saying that I do agree that capitalism is the best economic/political system known to date. However, I do not believe it is the best system and I think one day it will go the way of the monarchy, and people will look back and wonder why we put up with it for so long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Just to be clear, I'm debating what you wrote here,

    There has really never been a time in human history were, our economic system wasn't driven by some form of greed.
    No one really praises greed, they simply instinctively understand, that having more of something can be good.
    Thank you for clearing that up. One trip to the bar to watch a college football game and a few beers later, that discussion tends to get cloudy quickly.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 11-26-11 at 11:44 PM.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I think we are probably both reasonable individuals who agree on most things, and that's probably one of the few issues we disagree on (which then makes it seem like we disagree on more and then we argue over little things for 10-15 posts). Again, I have to prephrase this by saying that I do agree that capitalism is the best economic/political system known to date. However, I do not believe it is the best system and I think one day it will go the way of the monarchy, and people will look back and wonder why we put up with it for so long.
    Monarchy was the end stage of tribalism.
    The royalty were the last stage of that type of human existence.

    We put up with it because it was the best thing at the time, but it quickly faded when paying wages was seen as a better means of compensating people.

    Capitalism will fade when we invent replicators.
    At the time, the only thing we can "replicate" in any fashion is information.

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Thank you for clearing that up. One trip to the bar to watch a college football game and a few beers later, that discussion tends to get cloudy quickly.
    Understood.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #39
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by geewrd View Post
    They probably think $75k/year is a little excessive

    Who's greedy again?-starvation1-jpg
    Do you think that actually donating money to such organizations is going to certainly get to them and save their lives?

    I do donate but I don't think it's doing anything for them - maybe 1/4 is or something.
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  10. #40
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    Re: Who's greedy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Do you think that actually donating money to such organizations is going to certainly get to them and save their lives?

    I do donate but I don't think it's doing anything for them - maybe 1/4 is or something.
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    People don't respect free stuff, like they do earned stuff.
    Giving them something to do is better.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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