View Poll Results: Is this add accurate, dishonest, or does it cross the line?

Voters
83. You may not vote on this poll
  • The add is accurate and does not distort Obama's words

    39 46.99%
  • The add is dishonest

    24 28.92%
  • The add is dishonest and crosses a line beyond the standard political add distortions

    18 21.69%
  • Other, do not know

    2 2.41%
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Thread: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

  1. #81
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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Aww, and we were doing so well.

    Critical thinking and the kind of participation we see HERE is NOT the norm.

    From what I've seen, appx 25% of the population LACKS real critical thinking skills. That's the percentage that shows up in polls and graphs concerning beliefs people hold that simply aren't based on objective reality.

    There's a quote from one of the founders of the modern Public Relations industry that goes something like this:

    "Give me an unlimited budget and 100% saturation and I could get a pig elected to the White House."

    Simply put, what others know about how our minds/brains work, THAT WE DON'T, can be and is being used against us by those who DO.

    $10 billion dollar a year industry (trade data), outside of those in the direct employ of businesses and political groups.

    The same toolbox used to sell soap being used to sell ideas/beliefs.

    Never forget that anorexia and bulimia are diseases born in body image beliefs resulting from marketing. Unintended consequences of people constantly being told they suck and no one will want/love them if they don't have/do "x".

    Not all, or even most, PR/persuasion is "black". But the tools they use are much more potent than most believe.
    So do you want to try to stop those 25% from having the right to vote somehow?

    Or teach them how to think critically?

    One thing you abosultely shouldn't and can't do - try to control what 100% of us see or hear because you declared that 25% of us are too dumb to.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    So do you want to try to stop those 25% from having the right to vote somehow?

    Or teach them how to think critically?

    One thing you abosultely shouldn't and can't do - try to control what 100% of us see or hear because you declared that 25% of us are too dumb to.
    Actually, I think the science of persuasion has reached a level of sophistication that demands greater scrutiny.

    We should be educating our children about this, for their protection.

    It is ABSOLUTELY at the heart of the divide in this country.

    These tools are an "invisible hand".

    They touch every single aspect of our lives.

    Every single political campaign/message is crafted by professionals in this field.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    he quoted someone who was not part of the McCain campaign, and attributed the quote to the McCain campaign...which is a bit dishonest

    now Romney is attributing the quote to Obama.. which is also dishonest.
    Obama used the comments from a paid consultant to the McCain campaign effort. That was already made clear here. That is not at all dishonest.

    Romney took a quote which he knew was not attributed to Obama himself but was Obama quoting McCain. That is blatantly dishonest.

    For anyone to pretend that they are on the same level is committing intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Obama used the comments from a paid consultant to the McCain campaign effort. That was already made clear here. That is not at all dishonest.

    Romney took a quote which he knew was not attributed to Obama himself but was Obama quoting McCain. That is blatantly dishonest.

    For anyone to pretend that they are on the same level is committing intellectual fraud of the worst sort.
    Mike Murphy was not a paid consultant to the McCain campaign... he was not a member of McCain's campaign... in fact, he was very critical of hte campaign after they brought Palin on board.

    Obamas said ""Sen. McCain's campaign actually said, and I quote, ‘If we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose.’".. which is not true.. McCains campaign said no such thing... Mike Murphy did.


    if you are going to pretend to be concerned with honesty, at least apply your standards consistently.

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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    Mike Murphy was not a paid consultant to the McCain campaign... he was not a member of McCain's campaign... in fact, he was very critical of hte campaign after they brought Palin on board.

    Obamas said ""Sen. McCain's campaign actually said, and I quote, ‘If we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose.’".. which is not true.. McCains campaign said no such thing... Mike Murphy did.


    if you are going to pretend to be concerned with honesty, at least apply your standards consistently.


    Wikipedia says he advised McCain.

    Michael Ellis "Mike" Murphy (born 1962) is a Republican political consultant.[1] He has advised such nationally prominent Republicans as John McCain, Rick Lazio, Jeb Bush, John Engler, Tommy Thompson, Spencer Abraham, Christie Whitman, Lamar Alexander, and Arnold Schwarzenegger.[1][2] He was, until January 2006, an adviser to Mitt Romney, the Governor of Massachusetts and an about-to-become candidate for the Republican presidential nomination for the 2008 presidential election.[3] He stepped down as a result of his role as chief strategist to Governor Romney as well as Senator McCain, who were both widely expected to be Republican challengers in the primaries of the 2008 Presidential election. Murphy said he had decided to be neutral in a contest between two close clients, although he would advise each informally.
    If he did this unpaid - I stand corrected on that one detail. But he still advised the campaign even if not officially attached.

    In 2008, it was not exactly a secret that McCain wanted to stay away from the economy after gaffes like this

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...ccain-economy/

    “I don’t believe we’re headed into a recession,” he said, “I believe the fundamentals of this economy are strong and I believe they will remain strong.”
    cannot blame a candidate for not wanting to talk about their weak areas

    “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,” he said. But, “I’ve got Greenspan’s book,” he assured the audience.
    Sorry but this cannot be pinned solely on if Mike Murphy got a paycheck or not.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-24-11 at 03:47 PM.
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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Wikipedia says he advised McCain.



    If he did this unpaid - I stand corrected on that one detail. But he still advised the campaign even if not officially attached.

    McCain team shapes up without Murphy - Mike Allen and Jonathan Martin - POLITICO.com

    .. if he's not part of the campaign, he's not part of the campaign...it's really that simple.

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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Actually, I think the science of persuasion has reached a level of sophistication that demands greater scrutiny.

    We should be educating our children about this, for their protection.
    Agree 100%. Glad to hear you say this.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    McCain team shapes up without Murphy - Mike Allen and Jonathan Martin - POLITICO.com

    .. if he's not part of the campaign, he's not part of the campaign...it's really that simple.
    that article was from early July with four months to go in the campaign. And why is this supposedly about one person - Mike Murphy - when the real issue is the reluctance of John McCain to talk about economics - a subject which he made major gaffes about, a subject which he admitted his lack of knowledge about , and a subject which worked against him in the campaign? Obama knew that, everybody knew that. That is the basis of the Obama comment - not necessarily what Murphy or anybody else said other than John McCain.

    I think my comment about a paid consultant in my post #83 was not the total picture here and I was wrong to base it on that. I was basing that on a previous post in which another poster used the Murphy attribution. It goes beyond that and to McCain himself and the national perception that he was weak on the economy and did not want to discuss it after the previous listed gaffes on the topic.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-24-11 at 04:01 PM.
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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    that article was from early July with four months to go in the campaign. And why is this supposedly about one person - Mike Murphy - when the real issue is the reluctance of John McCain to talk about economics - a subject which he made major gaffes about, a subject which he admitted his lack of knowledge about , and a subject which worked against him in the campaign? Obama knew that, everybody knew that. That is the basis of the Obama comment - not necessarily what Murphy or anybody else said other than John McCain.

    I think my comment about a paid consultant in my post #83 was not the total picture here and I was wrong to base it on that. I was basing that on a previous post in which another poster used the Murphy attribution. It goes beyond that and to McCain himself and the national perception that he was weak on the economy and did not want to discuss it after the previous listed gaffes on the topic.
    well, we are basing the issue off of mike murphy's quote because that is the quote Obama specifially used.. and it's the quote the Romney campaign used... this entire thread is based upon that quote and that quote alone.

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    Re: Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    Mike Murphy was not a paid consultant to the McCain campaign... he was not a member of McCain's campaign... in fact, he was very critical of hte campaign after they brought Palin on board.

    Obamas said ""Sen. McCain's campaign actually said, and I quote, ‘If we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose.’".. which is not true.. McCains campaign said no such thing... Mike Murphy did.


    if you are going to pretend to be concerned with honesty, at least apply your standards consistently.
    In the following article by Thomas Defrank of the NY Daily News the quote was attributed to a top McCain strategist:

    Insults fly as Barack Obama & John McCain prepare for second debate - NY Daily News

    RELATED: PALIN'S COFFEE CUP QUOTE IS MOCHA DO ABOUT NOTHING

    McCain and his agents are "gambling that he can distract you with smears rather than talk to you about substance," Obama added. "They'd rather try to tear our campaign down than lift this country up. It's what you do when you're out of touch, out of ideas and running out of time."McCain's course correction reflects a growing case of nerves within his high command as the electoral map has shifted significantly in Obama's favor in the past two weeks."It's a dangerous road, but we have no choice," a top McCain strategist told the Daily News. "If we keep talking about the economic crisis, we're going to lose."

    RELATED: MAYOR'S GOT A SECRET - HIS PICK FOR PRESIDENT

    One-time McCain adviser Mike Murphy told NBC's "Meet the Press" he's worried because "it's McCain's barn that is on fire. McCain is defending states like North Carolina, Virginia, Florida that he has to win.""I think McCain can win, but the fact is, if the election were held today, he'd lose, and I think he's on a losing path," Murphy added. "This trendline is very, very bad."

    Read more: Insults fly as Barack Obama & John McCain prepare for second debate - NY Daily News


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