Is This Ad Dishonest or Does It Cross The Line.

StillBallin75 said:

It's dishonest, but what can anyone really do about it?

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What he said....this happens all the time in political ads...nothing new but sleezy none the less

I voted that it was accurate in order to be a dick.

going negative early. this is going to be an ugly campaign.

Helix said:

going negative early. this is going to be an ugly campaign.

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Agreed. That is because Newt, Mitt, or Obama has any positive record on which to stand.

Its politics 101...who is looking for honesty when it comes to politicians? Hell we have Obama stating we need to calm the rhetoric and then before he finishes his breathe he is fanning the flames. We have other congressmen involoking the specter of lynching and hanging in their political speeches. Obama and others attack the 'Tea Party' with some of the ugliest of rheotirc and routinely take comments out of context and OHBYTHEWAY...so do a good number of people on this site.

Wouldnt it be cool though if we didnt have to hear about Romneys religion, Obamas pastor, Bachmans husband, Clinton and Cains sexcapades, Bush and alleged drug use from 30 years prior, Biden...well...at all. But they will ALL continue to do it because they know they can pander to their base who will swallow everything AND regurgitate everything on debate boards.

jimbo said:

Agreed. That is because Newt, Mitt, or Obama has any positive record on which to stand.

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The thing that's surprised me the most is the lack of negativity between Republicans. You'd think Perry would be getting desperate enough to start going negative on Romney.

It's so obviously a blatant lie.

It should make Republican voters wonder what other blatant lies their party is foisting on them.

from Vance

Its politics 101...who is looking for honesty when it comes to politicians?

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I would sincerely hope we ALL are.

it is NOT Politics 101. I advise candidates and put on workshops for candidates. I would never ever advocate such a blatantly dishonest approach for two reasons:
1) quoting somebody quoting somebody else and not saying so is simply an act of intellectual fraud and gross dishonesty which reflects badly on the character of the candidate
2) once it has been exposed that you have done this deed, it will come back to bite you in the ass and that will out balance any temporary benefit you got from the ad in the first place.

haymarket said:

from Vance



I would sincerely hope we ALL are.

it is NOT Politics 101. I advise candidates and put on workshops for candidates. I would never ever advocate such a blatantly dishonest approach for two reasons:
1) quoting somebody quoting somebody else and not saying so is simply an act of intellectual fraud and gross dishonesty which reflects badly on the character of the candidate
2) once it has been exposed that you have done this deed, it will come back to bite you in the ass and that will out balance any temporary benefit you got from the ad in the first place.

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Really? its NOT politics 101? Why then after every debate, democrat or republican, does FACT CHECK have to offer corrections? Politicians pander to...well...you. The pander to the hyperpartisans to inspire their base. They say anything and know you wont care as long as they are saying what you want to hear. Be HONEST for once for Gods sake...do you EVER lead off a thread or post with an attack on democrats (unless those democrats arent being partisan ENOUGH for you)? Do you EVER display honest or unbiased opinions on ANY subject that is politically related? If its liberal...if its democrat...if it is pro union...you dont give a ****...period. If it is conservative, GOP or unflattering in ANY way towards your beloved union you trip over yourself in your rush to type some mindless attack in opposition. You dont examine both sides...you dont CARE about both sides. And you are not alone. It IS politics 101, precisely because they know who they are pandering to. You.

from Vance directed to myself when I said the Romney ad is NOT Politics 101

Really? its NOT politics 101?

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No it is not. Not any politics I have even been involved with and that goes back to the 70's.

Why then after every debate, democrat or republican, does FACT CHECK have to offer corrections?

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I think there is a significant difference between a politician offering their own interpretation on events and what Romney did which was blatantly dishonest and nearly criminal - or at least it should be.

Politicians pander to...well...you. The pander to the hyperpartisans to inspire their base. They say anything and know you wont care as long as they are saying what you want to hear.

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Actually they pander to anyone they feel they can obtain a vote from. You may not know this, but the base is often simply taken for granted and their appeals are carefully crafted to go beyond it since you do not normally court people who are already firmly in your column and have nowhere else to go.

Be HONEST for once for Gods sake...do you EVER lead off a thread or post with an attack on democrats (unless those democrats arent being partisan ENOUGH for you)? Do you EVER display honest or unbiased opinions on ANY subject that is politically related? If its liberal...if its democrat...if it is pro union...you dont give a ****...period. If it is conservative, GOP or unflattering in ANY way towards your beloved union you trip over yourself in your rush to type some mindless attack in opposition. You dont examine both sides...you dont CARE about both sides. And you are not alone. It IS politics 101, precisely because they know who they are pandering to. You.

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Fair question and I will give you a fair answer. YES. I have started threads and have participated in threads which criticized Democrats - President Obama being a main one. I went on record a while back as saying that Obama should not run for re-election. I was critical of the way he handled both last years end of the year tax measures as well as this summers debt ceiling battles. I have said repeatedly that I do not have faith in certain aspects of his leadership and disagree strongly with his style.

I find it interesting that you are so critical of me and my union work. You may find it interesting that during my 33 years in the union, I was always battling with union leadership and they frequently looked at me as a pain in their posterior who was not quite the team player they wanted me to be. I looked at our union as rather conservative and staid in their approach to many things including educational reform and I am proud to say that my views eventually won out and changes were made.

But thanks for asking. And Happy Thanksgiving to all.

misterman said:

It's so obviously a blatant lie.

It should make Republican voters wonder what other blatant lies their party is foisting on them.

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And democrats as well. We disagree on a number of things, but not this one.

PR is the science of the half-truth. Omission is a key device. Not all PR is "black", but a BUNCH is.

Its EXACTLY why the "other side" (either) believes so much nonsense.

Because some clever pro figured out how to convince them.

It was a political ad, it is what they are full of. Mistruths and lies. Just wait until the commercials that aren't from the candidates and the parties start coming out.

soccerboy22 said:

It was a political ad, it is what they are full of. Mistruths and lies. Just wait until the commercials that aren't from the candidates and the parties start coming out.

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This.

I was actually very concerned about the removal of all limits on political expenditures. And still worry it will result in a republican win and a profoundly conservative supreme court.

But I'm beginning to suspect that the American people will be left with a bad taste in their mouths as a result of the upcoming propaganda ****storm.

Romneys pulling this in his FIRST ad reinforces this suspicion.

Hopefully the people will reject being constantly misled by politicians and demand more honesty.

technically speaking, the ad is not a lie... Obama did actually say those words.

in reality, it's a misrepresentation of Obama's words.

it's par for the course in political ads.... words and quotes are often misrepresented.
anytime a politician uses the words of another politician in an ad, i lean towards believing it's a misrepresentation... sometimes i'm wrong and it's accurate, but most of the time, i'm right.

Redress said:

In the ad, Obama is quoted as saying "If we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose", but his full quote is this: "Sen. McCain's campaign actually said, and I quote, ‘If we keep talking about the economy, we're going to lose.’" However, it does say 23 seconds earlier that the comments where from 2008. So, is this ad accurately portraying what Obama said, it is dishonest, and if it is dishonest, does this cross a line beyond the normal dishonest political ad(yes, I know that is kinda vague, it is up to you to judge how to interpret it).

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Taken out of context and completely/purposefully misleading.

Howsomever, did anyone think about whether Obama's original quote was true? Who is the anonymous Republican strategist he quotes in the first place? Where is this reported anywhere except out of the mouth of President Obama?

What if...? said:

This.

I was actually very concerned about the removal of all limits on political expenditures. And still worry it will result in a republican win and a profoundly conservative supreme court.

But I'm beginning to suspect that the American people will be left with a bad taste in their mouths as a result of the upcoming propaganda ****storm.

Romneys pulling this in his FIRST ad reinforces this suspicion.

Hopefully the people will reject being constantly misled by politicians and demand more honesty.

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i'm pretty sure these types of ads were in abundance even before the CU decision.... hell, they've been in abundance since our inception.

What if...? said:

This.

I was actually very concerned about the removal of all limits on political expenditures. And still worry it will result in a republican win and a profoundly conservative supreme court.

But I'm beginning to suspect that the American people will be left with a bad taste in their mouths as a result of the upcoming propaganda ****storm.

Romneys pulling this in his FIRST ad reinforces this suspicion.

Hopefully the people will reject being constantly misled by politicians and demand more honesty.

Click to expand...

The people judging what they see and acting on it? Imagine that!

And here we are, using our own free speech to do just that. Critical thinking actually exists.

Thrilla said:

i'm pretty sure these types of ads were in abundance even before the CU decision.... hell, they've been in abundance since our inception.

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Yes. The law overturned by CU, by the way, was only passed in 2003.

MaggieD said:

Taken out of context and completely/purposefully misleading.

Howsomever, did anyone think about whether Obama's original quote was true? Who is the anonymous Republican strategist he quotes in the first place? Where is this reported anywhere except out of the mouth of President Obama?

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it was an informal McCain adviser,Mike Murphy, who said it on meet the press....he wasn't, however, a member of the McCain campaign....

so i guess that mean Obama's misrepresentation of the issue was misrepresented again by Romney's ad, for what it's worth.

The add is accurate and does not distort Obama's words
1. Tucker Case
2. TurtleDude
The add is dishonest:
1. Catawba
2. Esther
3. Josie
4. lpast
5. LuckyDan
6. Manc Skipper
7. Mickey Shane
8. Phys251
9. rocket88
10. rosie1
11. Your Star
The add is dishonest and crosses a line: haymarket
1. Keridan
2. OhIsee.Then
3. Omgitsme
4. What if...?

Just thought I'd put up an accurate count.

Perhaps one reason I feel so strongly about this and am so outraged as that I am a person who has written campaign literature, crafted messages and runs campaigns. Tactics like this disgust me and (I feel ) are a betrayal of every person in the political trenches who advocates for a more honest approach. And we are out there even if it seems otherwise too many times.

My political strategy is to push yourself and your assets and qualities hard and often. If you find yourself in desperate straits where you feel you have to hit your opponent, make sure you are on solid ground and don't do it half-assed. Hit hard and hit to kill and make sure the fact agree with you 100% or it will be your corpse that comes up dead.

It doesn't surprize me that Romney would be pulling that stunt. I think he was the salesman I bought a 1988 Ford Taurus from at a used car dealership in Lansing,Michigan.
The damn thing had transmission problems within the first year.

It's dishonest beyond the normal level of dishonesty. Obama wasn't even speaking his own personal beliefs but quoting another. What if, in a speech, Obama quoted a the dictator of a fascist state as a reason why America needs to promote democracy? Could a political rival then take that very fascist quote and claim Obama said/believes in it? That's the implication here.

The political ads of our country are disgusting.

misterman said:

The people judging what they see and acting on it? Imagine that!

And here we are, using our own free speech to do just that. Critical thinking actually exists.

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Aww, and we were doing so well.

Critical thinking and the kind of participation we see HERE is NOT the norm.

From what I've seen, appx 25% of the population LACKS real critical thinking skills. That's the percentage that shows up in polls and graphs concerning beliefs people hold that simply aren't based on objective reality.

There's a quote from one of the founders of the modern Public Relations industry that goes something like this:

"Give me an unlimited budget and 100% saturation and I could get a pig elected to the White House."

Simply put, what others know about how our minds/brains work, THAT WE DON'T, can be and is being used against us by those who DO.

$10 billion dollar a year industry (trade data), outside of those in the direct employ of businesses and political groups.

The same toolbox used to sell soap being used to sell ideas/beliefs.

Never forget that anorexia and bulimia are diseases born in body image beliefs resulting from marketing. Unintended consequences of people constantly being told they suck and no one will want/love them if they don't have/do "x".

Not all, or even most, PR/persuasion is "black". But the tools they use are much more potent than most believe.

It's not only dishonest, but when Mitt Romney is caught, he justifies it by saying Obama does the same thing. The ad is straight out of the Karl Rove / Lee Atwater play book.
Here is a video (not an ad) in response: