View Poll Results: Did Democrats cause the super committee to fail on purpose?

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  • No, they actually thought a trillion dollar tax hike in a recession was reasonable

    9 12.68%
  • No, it was a bi-partisan failure

    28 39.44%
  • Yes, the plan from the beginning was to fail

    34 47.89%
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Thread: They did it on purpose

  1. #281
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The first step is to keep debt under control.
    Exactly. That's why you should raise taxes, if you have the leeway to do that, to increase revenue, along with cutting spending.

    But as was said before, both will damage growth. That's the price of keeping debt under control. The trick is to find a reasonable, efficient balance between these different goals.

    How are the Europeans economies doing with all those high taxes?
    Actually, not so bad. Germany at least. We have much lower debts than the US (which about is on the per capita level as failing Greece), and even unemployment has fallen to the lowest level in 20 years. Now the euro crisis may drag down the abyss along with the bankrupt southern states, but if that happens, it will not be because of higher taxes compared to the US.
    Last edited by German guy; 11-23-11 at 05:08 PM.
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  2. #282
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Exactly. That's why you should raise taxes, if you have the leeway to do that, to increase revenue, along with cutting spending.

    But as was said before, both will damage growth. That's the price of keeping debt under control. The trick is to find a reasonable, efficient between the different goals.



    Actually, not so bad. Germany at least. We have much lower debts than the US (which about is on the per capita level as failing Greece), and even unemployment has fallen to the lowest level in 20 years. Now the euro crisis may drag down the abyss along with the bankrupt southern states, but if that happens, it will not be because of higher taxes compared to the US.
    It's not so bad that Greece and Italy are going belly up? It's fairely obvious that the tax and spend strategy isn't working.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #283
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's not so bad that Greece and Italy are going belly up? It's fairely obvious that the tax and spend strategy isn't working.
    Yeah, I am pretty sure per capita that our debt is as bad as Greece's. They have far better social services and receive far more awesomenesses.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  4. #284
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's not so bad that Greece and Italy are going belly up? It's fairely obvious that the tax and spend strategy isn't working.
    Well, as I said, that Germany is doing well is proof that it *can* work.

    But I agree, what does not work is constantly, over a too long period, spending much more than your revenues allow you to.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  5. #285
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    [...] By the way, my challenge went unanswered.
    What did that have to do with anything I said?
    Those exact words, in and of themselves? Absolutely nothing. But why did you choose to respond to a throwaway comment instead of defending your claim?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus, in post #263 View Post
    [...] The Democrats refuse to cut any social programs. [...]

  6. #286
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    There's not much difference between raising taxes and allowing tax cuts to expire. You need a better understanding of that.
    If you do not know the difference between an affirmative action where one takes actual steps towards the completion of an act which was not previous in play ... and something which is already in play and you simply do nothing to stop it ..... there is nothing I or anyone can do on this site to straighten you out.
    Last edited by haymarket; 11-23-11 at 07:04 PM.
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  7. #287
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's not so bad that Greece and Italy are going belly up? It's fairely obvious that the tax and spend strategy isn't working.
    And those are states in the union... right?????
    __________________________________________________ _
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  8. #288
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    static scoring is fun. unfortunately, people exist dynamically.
    then prove my math/position to be in error

    i was only proving that your assertion, that an increase in the nominal tax rates would NOT increase tax revenues, was very wrong
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  9. #289
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    three points here
    1) your own link says this

    So your own article which you offer in evidence gives its main reason as something other than the point you are trying to make.
    no, it suggests it as a possibility, which alters the reality that the wealthy (just like everyone else) will seek to minimize their tax exposure; and when you give them extraordinary incentives to do so, they will take extraordinary measures.

    2) people may be able to flee a state, but a national tax policy applies to all 50. Moving from Maryland to Virginia, or from Oregon or New York gains you nothing with a national tax.
    no, but altering the time and manner of your compensation does; which is what people have done in the past and will do in the future.

    3)The Clinton years tax rates worked wonderfully both in collections and by increasing revenues significantly.
    you mean the years where revenues shot up, the years after he cut the capital gains tax rate, thereby encouraging investment and growth? well, that is correct. of course, so did the Bush tax cuts. because revenues are not directly tied to nominal rates; but rather to GDP and the relative size of government. hiking rates won't increase revenue - economic growth will increase revenue. the question is, will disincentivizing productive behavior help or hinder economic growth?

  10. #290
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then prove my math/position to be in error
    your math isn't in error - your assumptions are in error.

    i was only proving that your assertion, that an increase in the nominal tax rates would NOT increase tax revenues, was very wrong
    well, if your argument were true, then wild variations in nominal tax rates would see wild variations in revenues. is that what we have seen?



    huh, no, in fact, it looks like significantly higher nominal rates have not brought in higher revenues. in fact, it looks like the higher revenues have come in the lower rate years! gosh, who'da thunk?

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