View Poll Results: Did Democrats cause the super committee to fail on purpose?

Voters
71. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, they actually thought a trillion dollar tax hike in a recession was reasonable

    9 12.68%
  • No, it was a bi-partisan failure

    28 39.44%
  • Yes, the plan from the beginning was to fail

    34 47.89%
Page 27 of 38 FirstFirst ... 17252627282937 ... LastLast
Results 261 to 270 of 372

Thread: They did it on purpose

  1. #261
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,153

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Taxable income is a variable, not a constant, and is directly influenced by the coefficient.
    show me the formula which defines this relationship

    i look forward to seeing it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  2. #262
    Professor
    Keridan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Last Seen
    08-19-17 @ 12:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,451

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    show me the formula which defines this relationship

    i look forward to seeing it
    Are you denying the relationship or simply asking for a definition because you realize that it would take a team of doctorate mathematicians and economists a hundred years to write it all down and a thousand to solve it?

    I guess I'm trying to determine if you really believe income levels aren't affected by tax levels. Your equation implied that a variable was a constant to make your point. Are you familiar with the fallacy of single cause?
    Omniscience just sucks without omnipotence!

  3. #263
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,793

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, nor does any one claim that. However, cutting spending also will have a negative effect on the economy, the deeper the cut, the more negative the effect. And of course getting both sides to agree what is wasteful is not going to happen easily. Let me give you an example: how much of our military spending is wasteful? Some of it certainly is. But how much?
    A lot of it is, I've always supported dramatic cuts in military spending, but that would require us to stop playing the world's policeman, which is unlikely because both sides like to send out the troops at the drop of a hat. But we also need dramatic cuts in social spending, pork-barrel spending, etc. The Democrats refuse to cut any social programs. They just want to raise taxes and keep pandering to their base, just like the Republicans do.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  4. #264
    long standing member
    justabubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:11 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    36,153

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Are you denying the relationship or simply asking for a definition because you realize that it would take a team of doctorate mathematicians and economists a hundred years to write it all down and a thousand to solve it?

    I guess I'm trying to determine if you really believe income levels aren't affected by tax levels. Your equation implied that a variable was a constant to make your point. Are you familiar with the fallacy of single cause?
    only asking for any proof available to defend the position that you staked out. this one:
    Quote Originally Posted by Keridan View Post
    Taxable income is a variable, not a constant, and is directly influenced by the coefficient.
    what i see is your assertion that there is a DIRECT influence of taxable income
    and i want to see what that direct influence consists of
    it's apparent you haven't a clue what that might be, indicating you were posting about that which you do not understand

    the point i made was to show that the other forum member was wrong in asserting that a higher nominal tax rate would not result in additional tax revenues
    it will

    here's an example:

    $1 taxed at a rate of 10% results in $0.10 tax revenues
    that same $1 taxed at 20% results in $0.20 tax revenues

    notice how the higher tax rate yielded higher tax revenues


    try it for yourself with other taxable incomes and a variety of tax rates. it will always hold true


    your turn to (try to) prove me wrong
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  5. #265
    Sage
    Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    12-18-14 @ 09:35 AM
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    5,561

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    [...] The Democrats refuse to cut any social programs. [...]
    untrue right wing talking point alert

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl, in post #180 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    By the way, Republicans offered $640 billion in spending cuts that Democrats and Republicans both liked as a start in negotiations and Democrats ignored it because it didn't include tax hikes. I challenge anyone to present me with evidence, aside from Harry Reid's seance over Kennedy's grave, that Democrats wanted anything but failure for this committee.
    I challenge you to present evidence proving your claim in bold.

    November 11, 2011: Democrats agree to Republicansí top lines including just $400 billion in revenues and $875 billion in spending cuts, but refuse to accept the GOPís tax cut for the rich. Republicans reject it and make their final offer: $640 billion in spending cuts and $3 billion in revenues.

    Republicans Won?t Compromise on Taxes: A Timeline
    By the way, my challenge went unanswered.

  6. #266
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,793

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    By the way, my challenge went unanswered.
    What did that have to do with anything I said?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  7. #267
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,496

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    My point is that it seems obvious to me that everybody has to take off his ideological blinders, if we're interested in a compromise. Just like Democrats have to realize that a success isn't possible without cutting spending (including the social systems), Republicans have to lay off the "taxes are theft!"-rhetoric, and take taxes for what they are: A necessity to increase revenues and reduce the deficit.

    Of course I wasn't in the room when the talks failed, but based on what I read, I see the problem is on both sides. Each side had their "holy cows" they refused to touch. For Democrats, it was raising the retirement age or cutting healthcare subsidies, for Republicans, it was raising taxes. And now, both sides play the blame game, instead of getting their act together and actually do something for the country (and future generations).

    It seems both Dems and Reps were more interested in abusing these talks for the 2012 campaign, than in actually finding a solution.
    The only problem is, Republicans aren't saying that. All we are saying, is that let's stop stifling job creation and create more revenue that way, before we go off half-cocked and raise everyone's taxes, during a depression. Basically, instead of more taxes, we create more tax payers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #268
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,496

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    [emphasis added by bubba]

    let's do the math

    larger coefficient multiplied times the taxable income > smaller coefficient multiplied times the taxable income

    plug in some numbers and see for yourself that your assertion is very wrong
    I say we let the Libbos raise taxes. It'll be a total failure at creating more revenue and a grand success at harming the economy and will insure their defeat next year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #269
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,496

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    only asking for any proof available to defend the position that you staked out. this one:

    what i see is your assertion that there is a DIRECT influence of taxable income
    and i want to see what that direct influence consists of
    it's apparent you haven't a clue what that might be, indicating you were posting about that which you do not understand

    the point i made was to show that the other forum member was wrong in asserting that a higher nominal tax rate would not result in additional tax revenues
    it will

    here's an example:

    $1 taxed at a rate of 10% results in $0.10 tax revenues
    that same $1 taxed at 20% results in $0.20 tax revenues

    notice how the higher tax rate yielded higher tax revenues


    try it for yourself with other taxable incomes and a variety of tax rates. it will always hold true


    your turn to (try to) prove me wrong
    If you end up with fewer dollars to tax, you won't increase the revenue stream. What you will creat, is a scenario where the working class folks have fewer dollars in their pockets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  10. #270
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:49 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,965

    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I say we let the Libbos raise taxes. It'll be a total failure at creating more revenue and a grand success at harming the economy and will insure their defeat next year.
    You need a better understanding of the situation before the Congress. Nobody needs to do anything. Nobody will vote to raise taxes. That process has already been agreed upon unless affirmative action is taken to stop it. So nobody needs to "raise taxes" in order for the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 to expire.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 27 of 38 FirstFirst ... 17252627282937 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •