View Poll Results: Did Democrats cause the super committee to fail on purpose?

Voters
71. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, they actually thought a trillion dollar tax hike in a recession was reasonable

    9 12.68%
  • No, it was a bi-partisan failure

    28 39.44%
  • Yes, the plan from the beginning was to fail

    34 47.89%
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Thread: They did it on purpose

  1. #91
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Has it also occured to you that spending cuts in a recession don't help either? This is Econ101. Look at what austerity is doing to Greece. The problem lies in the fact that it's really hard to spur economic growth and close a deficit at the same time.

    There is no political will to raise taxes because

    1) nobody likes taxes, and
    2) Republicans since the late 80s to early 90s have adopted an orthodox, hardcore anti-tax position. It's about ideology more than it is about economics when you have 90+ percent of Republicans in Congress signing onto the Norquist pledge.



    Employment, and economic growth as a whole, is more a function of consumer demand than it is about how much cash businesses have on hand. You can cut taxes all you want, but if the demand isn't there, all you're going to have is folks pocketing the extra money rather than hiring people, because there's no money to be made when there's no business and demand.

    As others have proposed, close loopholes, simplify the tax code. Lower the overall rates somewhat, I personally would add more brackets. Tax capital gains at a slightly higher rate.
    Businesses are some of the largest consumers out there. So you would raise taxes on investment? You think that is a smart tax hike in a recession?
    Get informed: UNICEF foreign adoption policy is killing orphans and the US gives $132 million to UNICEF every year. Stop the madness.
    For the best news and commentary on the 2012 election from the GOP perspective, visit www.whitehouse12.com.

  2. #92
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Businesses are some of the largest consumers out there. So you would raise taxes on investment? You think that is a smart tax hike in a recession?
    Consumers - and by consumers i mean households - contribute much more to demand than businesses.

    Yes I would raise taxes in investment income. Where were all those jobs and employment opportunities that were supposed to come with slashing the capital gains rate in the 90s and 2000s? That investment income - capital gains, dividends, what have you - clearly hasn't been used to hire folks.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  3. #93
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Republicans refuse to compromise on tax hikes because they know you don't raise taxes in a recession. Look back at what Obama said, he knew that too when he signed the bill extending the Bush cuts. Somehow he got stupid over the last 10 months. Republicans also know that taxes are high enough right now. Republicans do not believe that taxes should be any higher.

    Conversely, couldn't we conclude that Democrat stubbornness on any spending cut compromises means that they believe government is as small as it should be and we are not wasting any money at all? Do Democrats think there is anywhere in our 25% over budget spending that could be cut? Or do they think we are running as lean and mean as absolutely possible? Maybe some of the Democrats and liberals here could chime in on that one.
    I will be happy to chime in on that.

    Republican position is what you describe as what you BELIEVE in - you cannot raise taxes. You will not move one inch.
    If the Democrats took the opposite position of the GOP, it would be we cannot cut spending. But that is not our position.
    Democratic position is lets look at both sides of the budget ledger and deal with both. We have already moved a great deal from the opposite of your position.
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I will be happy to chime in on that.

    Republican position is what you describe as what you BELIEVE in - you cannot raise taxes. You will not move one inch.
    If the Democrats took the opposite position of the GOP, it would be we cannot cut spending. But that is not our position.
    Democratic position is lets look at both sides of the budget ledger and deal with both. We have already moved a great deal from the opposite of your position.
    So why don't we make spending cuts of waste and things we can't afford a priority?
    Get informed: UNICEF foreign adoption policy is killing orphans and the US gives $132 million to UNICEF every year. Stop the madness.
    For the best news and commentary on the 2012 election from the GOP perspective, visit www.whitehouse12.com.

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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I will be happy to chime in on that.

    Republican position is what you describe as what you BELIEVE in - you cannot raise taxes. You will not move one inch.
    If the Democrats took the opposite position of the GOP, it would be we cannot cut spending. But that is not our position.
    Democratic position is lets look at both sides of the budget ledger and deal with both. We have already moved a great deal from the opposite of your position.
    Especially in a recession. Why does the left make punishing people through higher taxes such a high priority?
    Get informed: UNICEF foreign adoption policy is killing orphans and the US gives $132 million to UNICEF every year. Stop the madness.
    For the best news and commentary on the 2012 election from the GOP perspective, visit www.whitehouse12.com.

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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Consumers - and by consumers i mean households - contribute much more to demand than businesses.

    Yes I would raise taxes in investment income. Where were all those jobs and employment opportunities that were supposed to come with slashing the capital gains rate in the 90s and 2000s? That investment income - capital gains, dividends, what have you - clearly hasn't been used to hire folks.
    Are you kidding me? We had full employment in the 90s and most of the 2000s. We had 4.6% unemployment, considered to be full employment by economists for most of the Bush administration. It didn't start rising until Democrats took over Congress in 2007.
    Get informed: UNICEF foreign adoption policy is killing orphans and the US gives $132 million to UNICEF every year. Stop the madness.
    For the best news and commentary on the 2012 election from the GOP perspective, visit www.whitehouse12.com.

  7. #97
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Especially in a recession. Why does the left make punishing people through higher taxes such a high priority?
    Your extremist attitude is exactly why the super committee failed. Oliver Wendell Holmes said that taxes are the price for a civilized society. No mention of punishing anybody.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your extremist attitude is exactly why the super committee failed. Oliver Wendell Holmes said that taxes are the price for a civilized society. No mention of punishing anybody.
    So why don't we just raise taxes until the deficit goes away?
    Get informed: UNICEF foreign adoption policy is killing orphans and the US gives $132 million to UNICEF every year. Stop the madness.
    For the best news and commentary on the 2012 election from the GOP perspective, visit www.whitehouse12.com.

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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Are you kidding me? We had full employment in the 90s and most of the 2000s. We had 4.6% unemployment, considered to be full employment by economists for most of the Bush administration. It didn't start rising until Democrats took over Congress in 2007.
    You didn't get my point. The income and wealth derived from those cuts in the 90s and 2000s is still there. Why isn't it being used to hire folks NOW? Because there's more to the economy than just being a function of how much cash business have on hand.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #100
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    Re: They did it on purpose

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    You didn't get my point. The income and wealth derived from those cuts in the 90s and 2000s is still there. Why isn't it being used to hire folks NOW? Because there's more to the economy than just being a function of how much cash business have on hand.
    Just to be clear, you are not saying that those tax cuts had no effect on job growth, right?
    Get informed: UNICEF foreign adoption policy is killing orphans and the US gives $132 million to UNICEF every year. Stop the madness.
    For the best news and commentary on the 2012 election from the GOP perspective, visit www.whitehouse12.com.

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