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Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

  • Yes

    Votes: 53 75.7%

  • No

    Votes: 17 24.3%
  • Total voters
    70
Bodhisattva said:
Unless we all have equal access to lobby, this is nothing more than another disingenuous comment. We don't. We can "lobby" all we want by writing them, but we don't have equal access to lawmakers time. We can't lunch with them or get into their offices and present bills for consideration. Do you work for the DC machine or something?
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that's why we have lobbyists, so they can represent other people on the issues.

for instance,instead of 4 million people trying to bang down congressman's doors or have lunch with them to talk about gun rights, they sent the NRA.
 
What if...? said:
Primarily to provide limits to individual liability.

There is absolutely no need to confer "personhood" on a non-human entity.

Other mechanisms could be easily devised to facilitate business and provide liability limits WITHOUT conferring personhood.

All those people who make up a corporation ALREADY have rights. They have no need for an ADDITIONAL voice.
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Personhood is irrevelant to politics anyway. Citizens United did not say anything about corporate personhood. It simply said you can't suppress speech, regardless of the source.
 
rocket88 said:
Given the outcome of the last three Presidential elections, there's plenty of evidence to support that conclusion.

With the First Amendment as it is, there's nothing that can be done. It would take an amendment, but it might not be a bad idea. Democracy has been hijacked by moneyed interests and the two major parties.
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You have no right to complain about democracy being hijacked if you don't like it in the first place.
 
hazlnut said:
What is a LOBBY? (e.g. the energy lobby)

A LOBBY is simple a UNION of Corporations. Corps unionize the gain collective bargaining power with Government.

Corps make a contribution to the Lobbying firm (union) and allow the money to used to buy access and push for their collective interests.


So, restricting Unions, Corps, and Lobbying groups from access would allow the Fed Gov to work the way it was supposed to.
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lobbyists are not just unions of corporations... that is false.
 
hazlnut said:
What is a LOBBY? (e.g. the energy lobby)

A LOBBY is simple a UNION of Corporations. Corps unionize the gain collective bargaining power with Government.

Corps make a contribution to the Lobbying firm (union) and allow the money to used to buy access and push for their collective interests.


So, restricting Unions, Corps, and Lobbying groups from access would allow the Fed Gov to work the way it was supposed to.
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Wow, you don't know what you're talking about.

Lobbyists can and do work for anyone, not just corporations or groups of corporations.
 
Thrilla said:
lobbyists are not just unions of corporations... that is false.
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Do you understand how a lobbying group or firm functions?

Do you understand how an Union functions?

Do you not see similarities?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Regardless of the other mechanisms... his point is correct. Personhood for corporations is just another form of greed and control.
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it's only correct when you have a juvenile understanding of the issue...

corporate personhood is a very good thing for us.. the benefits outweigh the costs by far. ... but you have to want to explore the whole issue in order to find this out.....progressive talking points will never get you to the truth.
 
misterman said:
Wow, you don't know what you're talking about.

Lobbyists can and do work for anyone, not just corporations or groups of corporations.
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Talk about missing the point...

A firm the specializes in lobbying for energy corps is not going to rep Kraft Foods.

Lobby groups ARE collectives. They ARE corps in the same industry BANDING together and BUYING access and INFLUENCE.

Get better informed before you respond and attempt to have a go around with me...
 
misterman said:
If your conclusion is that voters are dumb, why let them vote in the first place?
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No, voters are not dumb...easily manipulated and lazy perhaps but not dumb. Why let them vote? Because I agree with Churchill.... "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest."
 
hazlnut said:
Do you understand how a lobbying group or firm functions?

Do you understand how an Union functions?

Do you not see similarities?
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you left off a big ass chuck of lobby groups... such as the ACLU, NRA, etc etcetcetcetcetcetc... they lobby issues.. and their members are not corporations.
industry lobbyists do exist, but they do not make up the bulk of lobbyists.

when you start off with a flawed premise, you will inevitably end up with a flawed conclusion.
 
Thrilla said:
it's only correct when you have a juvenile understanding of the issue...

corporate personhood is a very good thing for us.. the benefits outweigh the costs by far. ... but you have to want to explore the whole issue in order to find this out.....progressive talking points will never get you to the truth.
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Right. A dissenting opinion is a juvenile one. Obviously that is a juvenile opinion.

Well, been nice talking with ya...
 
hazlnut said:
Talk about missing the point...

A firm the specializes in lobbying for energy corps is not going to rep Kraft Foods.

Lobby groups ARE collectives. They ARE corps in the same industry BANDING together and BUYING access and INFLUENCE.

Get better informed before you respond and attempt to have a go around with me...
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what corporation banded together to form the collective known as the NRA?.. the ACLU?.. the Ford Foundation?..planned parenthood?... etcetcetcetcetcetetetcet

enlightened us.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Right. A dissenting opinion is a juvenile one. Obviously that is a juvenile opinion.

Well, been nice talking with ya...
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no... a juvenile opinion is juvenile...and wrongheaded dissenting opinion is wrongheaded.

a dissenting opinion is fine... but you gotta have knowledge first, not inaccurate talking points
 
Thrilla said:
that's why we have lobbyists, so they can represent other people on the issues.

for instance,instead of 4 million people trying to bang down congressman's doors or have lunch with them to talk about gun rights, they sent the NRA.
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That is oviously a superficial understanding of the issue... and that is of course, your right to express.
 
Thrilla said:
no... a juvenile opinion is juvenile...and wrongheaded dissenting opinion is wrongheaded.

a dissenting opinion is fine... but you gotta have knowledge first, not inaccurate talking points
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Your counterpoint was so filled with knowledge that I hardly know where to begin.

OR...

Perhaps you are just spouting off talking points and confusing others statements through projection?
 
Bodhisattva said:
Wallets cannot be compared to voices. We each have one voice. Some people have one dollar, others have millions.

The comparison is absolutely ridiculous.

You can get an abortion without money. Lawyers work pro bono. none of those comparisons are anything like buying an election where another person will vote the way that you (the few) want against the opposition of (the many).
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Unbelievable.

You actually think a law banning the payment of lawyers or abortion doctors would be constitutional.

Seriously, think about that.
 
hazlnut said:
Do you understand how a lobbying group or firm functions?

Do you understand how an Union functions?

Do you not see similarities?
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Lobbyists can and do work for anyone who wants one. They are like lawyers. They simply represent someone, or a group of people, or whatever. Groups that you are a member of likely have lobbyists.
 
hazlnut said:
Talk about missing the point...

A firm the specializes in lobbying for energy corps is not going to rep Kraft Foods.

Lobby groups ARE collectives. They ARE corps in the same industry BANDING together and BUYING access and INFLUENCE.

Get better informed before you respond and attempt to have a go around with me...
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As a former lobbyist, I think I know what I'm talking about.

Some lobbyists work in firms and are hired on a contract basis, yes. Others are on the staff of the organization they work for.

You are referring to associations, not lobbyists. Sure, they band together. Lots of people do that. It's another fundamental right. There are thousands of groups like that, from the NRA to the NAACP to the ACLU.
 
snodog said:
No, voters are not dumb...easily manipulated and lazy perhaps but not dumb. Why let them vote? Because I agree with Churchill.... "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest."
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Then stop treating them like they are dumb.
 
Thrilla said:
you left off a big ass chuck of lobby groups... such as the ACLU, NRA, etc etcetcetcetcetcetc... they lobby issues.. and their members are not corporations.
industry lobbyists do exist, but they do not make up the bulk of lobbyists.

when you start off with a flawed premise, you will inevitably end up with a flawed conclusion.
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Ten bucks says if he names all the groups he's a member of or has sent money too, one of them has a lobbyist. I'll look it up for him.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Your counterpoint was so filled with knowledge that I hardly know where to begin.

OR...

Perhaps you are just spouting off talking points and confusing others statements through projection?
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it's not my problem you won't entertain anything beyond your talking points dude....

i'be had this debate hundreds or times...if you want to go at it, fine... just leave the memes and talking points to talking heads and other morons.

I have centuries worth of precedents and reasoning to back my arguments.. i have the very basis for common law to back my position.. you wanna offer up a debate, go for it, but you had better open your mind to being wrong.
 
CriticalThought said:
Would you support an amendment to the United States Constitution which would bar corporations and unions from financially contributing to elections?

Why or why not?
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Basically, I voted "Yes", not because I believe an amendment to the constitution is required, but because a law barring corporations and unions from pumping money into elections IS required.

Right now, we have the best congress union and corporate money can buy. Campaign contributions are nothing more than legal bribery, and the only people who can run for national office are the ones who find a rich corporate or union whore to bed down with in order to fill their campaign coffers. We need real, legitimate Campaign Finance Reform, so that every political party gets the same amount of public funding, and no more. We need a level playing field so that congress is filled with people who want to serve and are qualified to serve instead of those who covet only the power and money that being in congress can give them. Lobbyist money. Corporate money. Union money. Special interest money. You know, congressional bribes.

I haven't read the rest of the thread... don't have to because I know exactly how I feel about this issue... but I do know that until we get all special interest groups out of congress, we will never have a government dedicated to the public good instead of their own good.

Whores, pimps and thieves, the lot of them. :2mad:
 
misterman said:
Ten bucks says if he names all the groups he's a member of or has sent money too, one of them has a lobbyist. I'll look it up for him.
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exactly....

I understand the fear and loathing over lobbyists... it's something that is pushed on us nowadays .. " evil lobbyists"... but I do not share in that fear or loathing, I find it absolutely absurd.
lobbyists do a ton of work for me and my issues through my memberships in differing organizations...and I certainly won't throw out the baby with the bathwater.... it's a very good baby, and the bathwater ain't too shabby either.
 
DiAnna said:
Basically, I voted "Yes", not because I believe an amendment to the constitution is required, but because a law barring corporations and unions from pumping money into elections IS required.

Right now, we have the best congress union and corporate money can buy. Campaign contributions are nothing more than legal bribery, and the only people who can run for national office are the ones who find a rich corporate or union whore to bed down with in order to fill their campaign coffers. We need real, legitimate Campaign Finance Reform, so that every political party gets the same amount of public funding, and no more. We need a level playing field so that congress is filled with people who want to serve and are qualified to serve instead of those who covet only the power and money that being in congress can give them. Lobbyist money. Corporate money. Union money. Special interest money. You know, congressional bribes.

I haven't read the rest of the thread... don't have to because I know exactly how I feel about this issue... but I do know that until we get all special interest groups out of congress, we will never have a government dedicated to the public good instead of their own good.

Whores, pimps and thieves, the lot of them. :2mad:
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I absolutely adore some special interest groups, and i'd be willing to wager big bucks that you do too.
 
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