View Poll Results: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

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  • Yes

    66 37.50%
  • No

    110 62.50%
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Thread: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

  1. #311
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    So lobbyists do these things for the fun of it? Or because it helps them to persuade the elected officials?
    Lobbyists drive to work in the morning, but that doesn't make driving lobbying. And many don't drive.

    The point is that if you want to pass a law that forbids lobbyists from donating to campaigns, that wouldn't stop lobbying. If you want to talk about campaign donations, simply talk about them.

    Like you said, food comes from the sun...
    Last edited by misterman; 11-23-11 at 04:14 PM.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  2. #312
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    http://www.cfinst.org/data/pdf/VitalStats_t8.pdf

    This shows that generally candidates get a plurality of their funding from artificial persons. I am not sure that actually helps your case that candidates fund themselves.
    No it does not show that. It shows candidates getting a majority from individuals.

    And a PAC or party is not an artificial person. A PAC is simply a fund that takes money from individuals and gives it to candidates. It is not normally incorporated. I don't know if parties are, but like we established, they give virtually nothing to candidates anyway.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

  3. #313
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes it does. Scroll down. It shows the sources of the money with the limits for each source.

    See where the chart says "individual may give" etc? Those are the sources. None others are legal. You won't find any source that isn't a person, or doesn't get its funding in turn from a person. Ultimately, only individuals provide funding for the system. Corporations and unions and governments are all explicitly banned from giving money to any of these, or to candidates.
    As I said, it shows the limits per each category. It doesn't show how many of each category did what. That is what you would need to show that "Most of the funding for our campaigns, despite the whining you may hear, comes from the people."

    Further, the next source you cited shows that that assertion is false.
    http://www.cfinst.org/data/pdf/VitalStats_t8.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    False. Most of the funding for our campaigns, despite the whining you may hear, comes from the people.
    I may be wrong.

  4. #314
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    As I said, it shows the limits per each category. It doesn't show how many of each category did what.
    Yes it does.

    Further, the next source you cited shows that that assertion is false.
    http://www.cfinst.org/data/pdf/VitalStats_t8.pdf
    No it doesn't.

    Wow.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No it does not show that. It shows candidates getting a majority from individuals.
    You used it to support the assertion that candidates funded themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    And a PAC or party is not an artificial person.
    Can they enter into contracts? Are they real persons?
    I may be wrong.

  6. #316
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Yes it does.
    Please copy and paste the language from this site: Contributions Brochure which details how much each category actually gave.


    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    No it doesn't.
    Wow.
    I was wrong about that one.
    I may be wrong.

  7. #317
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    You used it to support the assertion that candidates funded themselves.
    Uh, what? No.

    Can they enter into contracts? Are they real persons?
    Can only real persons enter into contracts?

    Are all things that aren't real persons "artificial persons?"
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Please copy and paste the language from this site: Contributions Brochure which details how much each category actually gave.
    No, that was the source for the legal sources of money, not the amount given. The other link gives amounts (by percent).
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Uh, what? No.
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    You can't find a single candidate who doesn't take money? (In the U.S. at least, candidates fund themselves and have only a small dependence on the parties). Or run yourself without taking money
    Cite for this assertion please.
    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    http://www.cfinst.org/data/pdf/VitalStats_t8.pdf
    I'll believe you that you lost track of which assertion you were being asked about


    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Can only real persons enter into contracts?
    No, artificial person can as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by misterman View Post
    Are all things that aren't real persons "artificial persons?"
    no, some things are not persons at all
    I may be wrong.

  10. #320
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    Re: Would you support an amendment barring corporate and union money from elections?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I'll believe you that you lost track of which assertion you were being asked about
    Please state the assertion you want backed up so it's clear.
    "Yes I read the 9th [amendment]. It doesn't say **** about abortion." -Jamesrage

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